DMR's K-5 Gutter Machine Photopage part 1

What Do These Web Pages Have To Offer Me?

A Superior Gutter Machine and Trailer Set-up:
These are the DMR Gutters K-5 gutter machine and trailer web pages portion of our web site, which you will find to be the most comprehensive you will find on the Web by far. If you are a gutter contractor, or looking to become a gutter contractor, You are a clever person and possess a pretty good mechanical aptitude, and are looking for a good set-up like D M R Gutters; you can read over these pages to get good ideas of how you can make this a reality.

These pages are not to sell our gutter machine and trailer, since that would put us out of business for a month or so; to order another machine and make a whole new trailer. I just replaced all the steel screws with stainless steel screws in August 2005. We have had our machine for a decade now and it has not needed any major service in all that time being kept out of the elements, which is the advice we generously went out of our way to offer you here on these web pages. We still use our machine on a regular basis.

Gutter Installation and Business Training:
There is a great deal of info on our web site regarding this sort of business, but it is not a standard system. It revolves around a very high standard of quality and set of ethics that you will not find in the normal business world. We feel that if nothing else it is a smarter and less expensive route to go in the long run, saving thousands each month in advertising costs to keep the phone ringing. We do not profess this to be a quick-get-rich sort of program. It has a good potential of making a healthy living without breaking your back, or having to work with hazardous materials. It has growth potential, but we feel some of the best rewards is to feel the pride and satisfaction of your constructive labors, of providing a good service to clients, and helping to build values in America once again.

We also offer one of the only hands on gutter installation, business, and promotions training programs in the Country, with franchise options to help get your business off the ground running. As long as you share our ideals of quality work and ethics. Read through our web site carefully to get to know this business as well as you possibly can. Then write an essay on your experience, qualifications, and plans for this sort of business. Then e-mail that to us.

You will need to mail half of the tuition to begin the training on-line to prepare you to maximize your training when you get here. The other half will be due when you arrive for your hands on training. Read the sections below to find out more what that training entails.

What Kind Of Trailer Will I Need?

As you will see on these several web pages; I have designed our gutter machine trailer to be strong, yet as light weight as possible. To make it so that is can be pulled by a small Honda 2.7 liter V-6 engine, and a light weight class 1 trailer hitch. Light weight is imperative to be able to make it up steep hills, as well as having decent gas mileage. The Gutter machine with one full 400 lbs aluminum coil weighs around 2,000 lb without the trailer weight. So you have this, along with the weight of the trailer and shell, so you are looking to pull a good 3,500 to 4,000 lb or so behind you. It also needs to have a special opening access hatch in the roof, so the fork lift at the wholesale supplier can lower the 400 lb coil onto the machine's spool. They do not make standard trailers with this in mind. It is good to keep it low height as possible, so that you do not need to use a ladder out to remove the screws to open the hatch, as well as minimizing the wind drag. The hatch needs to withstand freeway speeds and keep out the rain, while being simple and light weight.

Size and Decking:
The trailer should be a double axel with one axel having an electric brake assist. It does not need to be longer than 12' long plus the trailer tongue. A 10' long trailer floor was too short, and there is no need for a 14' trailer. A longer trailer adds weight and makes it that much more difficult to manage in traffic and to park. It should have a 4' to 5' bed with the floor between the wheels with the steel frame built out to the outside of the wheel wells for the shell support; for a 5.5' to 6.5' interior width. It does not need to have a wood deck under the gutter machine its self, so it is best to not get a trailer that is already decked. A 2x4 deck in a lighter cedar or redwood is best for the floor of the trailer, than just a cheap pine deck.

Vehicle Connection:
I prefer the hitch seen on these pages and you will need a tongue lift to get it on and off the towing ball. It is best to have the vehicle set up with a full set of clearance lights, back-up lights, separate turn signals, brake lights, and an electric brake controller with relays placed on each circuit to keep from melting your vehicle's electrical switches. That actually happened to me early on, where I had the wiring professionally installed, but one day the steering column started smoking and fried my switches, costing me over $300 to have replaced. I ended up having to rewire it all myself with the added relays.

What If I Need Your Personal Help Building a Trailer system Like Yours?

Obviously we have experience with this and have worked out all the bugs to design a strong light weight trailer to house the gutter machine, so if you feel that you could use our help building a good user-friendly gutter machine trailer set-up like you see here. I was tested to have a near perfect mechanical aptitude and seem to be able to brainstorm most any problem. We can help you get one of these new machines and customize a good set-up that fits your needs. For a price of course. If you are able to come here and help out with the fabrication, we will factor that into the cost. E-mail us to get a quote to fit your particular needs.

As stated above, we have also have spent the last decade+ working out hundreds of the bugs in this business, and we would have to say that much like this comprehensive web site, D M R Gutters has the most detailed and smooth running systems out there. If you are willing to travel over here to Oregon and stay for a week or so, for a fee D M R Gutters can give you a hands-on experience and show you what the best way to run this sort of gutter/sheet metal fabrication business. Where to get good parts we use. The right tools for this type of work and equipment. Even how to find clients, and save several thousands of dollars each month on advertising.

What About Used Gutter Machines?

We do not deal in used machines as they are not worth having. I do not know any business that buy used machines and tries to recondition them to sell, as there is not enough money in it. You cannot get a new machine for cheap, but there is not much advantage to getting a used machine. It most likely needs to be rebuilt, which costs several thousand dollars and more time out of service. And that is if you can find a technician local to you that knows what he is doing. Most gutter contractors will mount their machine on the back of a pick-up truck, leaving the machine exposed to the elements, and they become riddled with rust. Some gutter machines may have a some stainless steel rollers, but the bearings are not stainless steel, nor the frame. The motor will most likely need replaced or rebuilt. Some of the custom parts (if they can be found), are very pricey, which could cost you more than the difference of a new machine, not including the labor to do all this research and rebuilding.

If the machine is not in very good shape, it will crack and scratch the painted sheet metal or worse yet, it is common that it will no longer form it the right way, and even have the sheet metal constantly bind up and jam in the machine. I have seen gutter machine advertised for as little as $5k to $6k USA $, but that does not mean they are really worth that much. I think the current price for scrapping mixed metals is about 7 cents a pound, so that is $140 a ton. That is about how much they weigh, so that is about how much you should really have to pay, plus the weight of the trailer, if it has one? <LOL>

Wouldn't you rather just have a care-free new machine with all new parts and the latest technology? Down time will cost you a small fortune. Even driving an old beat up work vehicle cost way more to a contactor than the payments on a new rig. For every day it is in service, you are loosing $500 to $1,000. It will also hurt your sales and referrals.

Yes, I drive an Acura 4 door sedan. You might wonder if that hurts my sales, but anyone can see that I could afford a truck if I chose to, but I clearly choose to drive this. It shows that I am a clever guy who has thought this through very carefully, and I find this rig to be far more user friendly, with the ladders down where I can reach them, without a ladder.

What If I Need Training In Gutter Installation:

As stated above, for more information than D M R Gutters has generously provided on our web site already, you will have to pay for lessons. We will be happy to tailor these to your needs and adjust the cost accordingly. You will most likely need to be able to spend a week or so here with us for a portion of this hands-on training. You can bring others to train with you

With our training program and franchise options you can get:

1. Internet correspondence to set up this training time and other details, along with some correspondences before to begin some of the training, to help maximize your time here. Then some afterwards teaching and answer time, for some of the questions that you will come up with later.

2. Learning the lingo and sales techniques that work.

3. You would have a list of tools and suppliers that are best for your resource.

4. A detailed work system to save you a lot of money and time.

5. We will be going over marketing concepts, and work together to develop a starter web site to market your service for clients local to you, that is linked to our web site. That includes some of our web site development. This will save you a great deal of sales time on the phone and in person, not to mention giving you that professional image. It will also save you thousands a month on advertising costs and help you find a better qualified clientele.

6. We will show you how to maintain the web site, and add your personal touches and photos. A list of the programs needed, that we have tested over the last decade of web design work.

7. Copies of print masters for your sales brochures and other paper work.

8. Book keeping and tax information.

9. You could even use the name; Dynamic Metal Rendering, and list yourself as an official D M R Gutters franchise to help give you a head start to impress new clients. With the full training and franchise, you will not have to worry about another gutter contractor training with us and competing for your business within a 100+ mile radius of your location for as long as you are going to run your gutter business there.

10. We will be taking you out to actual customers homes to do bids and do actual paid work, and see how we interact with clients, with a hand-on demonstration of gutter installation.

11. D M R Gutters will be demonstrating most types of gutter sheet metal fabrication and installation. even if it is not relating to the jobs we have lined up. We would be using up aluminum material to demonstrate with and practice on, so we can see that you are able to do it yourself as well. Along with samples and templates to take back with you.

And much more that we have not thought to detail here.

As far as cost; a comprehensive seminar with 20 or so students involved for a full week of training would run well over $1,000 each person. That mean the teacher gets a gross total of $20k for that week to cover expenses and their fee. We do realize that $20k would be more than most people would be willing to pay, but for D M R Gutters to spend a well over week with you online and in person, we would need $5,000 to cover all we are offering as listed above. Again, we will customize this program to fit your needs and adjust that cost.

You could spend much more than that on just getting a good custom web site designed for your business alone. It is up to you. If you think about it, this is a small start-up cost for most any small business. We will also help save you far more than that within the first year with following our advice, compared to your learning from trial and error. This will also greatly increasing your chances for success.

If you are serious about our training program, read through the dozens of web pages on our web site (not just this one web page), write an essay on your qualifications, experience, your business plan so far, and let us know just what you need from us.

Then send it to us in an e-mail.

The pictures below are linked to larger pictures of the same photo for a better look
Just click on the pictures

This is our gutter machine that we use to form the K-5 gutters we install from the 12" coil of sheet metal shown here in white. A full coil is around 400lb and has to be loaded with a fork lift, down through the removable roof panel.

The machine was made for us back East in 1995. It is called the Mach II, if that means much? I did special order it new, with an extra set of rollers that cost me an extra $1500. They bend a safety hem on the back side of the gutter. Very few machines in this are have this feature.

As far as I know, the only other gutter machine with this safety hem feature is located at Gutterman's Supply, a wholesaler to Contractors for gutter and roof flashing supplies. They do small run-outs for Contractors who do not have a gutter machine.

I bought run-outs from them for two years, until I was sure that gutter installation was the type of construction I wanted to specialize in and to invested in a gutter machine of my own. The machine they had was the reason I spent the extra dollars to have this safety hem extra set of rollers installed. It cost about $15k with the cost of the trailer.

This was the first trailer I had for our gutter machine. The cabin shell was 5 feet wide and 10 feet long on the outside. Originally it only had one axel under it. I later installed these two smaller sets of axels. I made an aluminum cover for it right off the bat. I was not going to let it get rained on. Some of the rollers are stainless steel, but the bearings are not and will rust up. The machine has a thick aluminum shell over the red painted steel tubular frame. Most gutter companies in this area have there machine right out there in the weather, for ease of loading new coils of gutter coils of sheet metal, and within a few years the machine is ruined, but the companies keep using them. The rusty rollers dent the sheet metal and scratch-up the paint. Rebuilding of the machines cost several thousand dollars. I have replace about a dozen sets of bearings myself, and it has been kept out of the weather this whole time.

I bought a larger double axel trailer to house our gutter machine and transferred it over in the first part of 2001. I kept it in the workshop and made a similar, but improved shell for this new trailer. all this before doing another gutter job, keeping the gutter machine out of the weather.

Here is the finished results. The interior is about a foot and a half wider, and 2 feet longer. this gives us a lot better ability to move around the machine and transport supplies. A box of downspouts are about 10 feet 2 inches long. The old trailer was about 9 feet 8 inches on the inside, so I could not load them in the trailer. I had made it just big enough to house the machine, with less concern to ease of functionality. We suffered with that smaller trailer for 6 years, until I got the gumption to up-grade to the bigger trailer. The trailer it's self is not any wider. I just enclosed the wheel wells this time.

Here it is with a solid copper coil on the cradle, just behind the main coil spool. I don't sell a lot of copper gutters, as they are very pricey.

I do not push them on my clients. I rarely even speak of copper gutters. Copper is not going to last longer. It's main advantage is the fact that you will not need to bother to repaint them in the future, but most of the clients who ask for them do it for the brag points.

One of the nicest features of this gutter machine is the guillotine on the rear-end of the machine that chops off the gutter run-out. It leaves a nice clean factory edge. Very nice, and easy to operate.

Here is a shot of the rear-door closed. Yes, it one of the only trailers to sport a set of gutters and downspouts on both sides of the trailer. Not to mention the no-clog options added to them. I also have all my trailers fir with separate amber turn signals and white back up lights. This is not common.

There is also working electric brakes on one of the axels for safety. It is the law to have electric brakes on one of the axels on all double axel trailers, but it is hard to enforce.

Here is a good shot of the gutter being extruded out of our machine. This shows the double doors I scabbed off the old trailer. In mid 2002 I changed it over to this single door that is raised by gas charged hydraulic lifts off an Acura hatch back car. This is better for working in the rain

In aluminum sheet metal, we can get about 2.6 feet of gutter per pound, so a 400 lb coil can produce about 1000 feet of gutter. Copper is gauged at 16oz, so it is 1 pound per square foot of sheet metal. This of course means that a 400 lb coil will only produce about 400 feet of gutter.

Copper cost us over 4 times as much as the pre-painted aluminum. I have never run steel through my machine, so I do not know what the price savings would be? I do know that when I go to recycle the old rusty gutters, steel is worth less than 1/20 of the value of scrap aluminum. So when considering a bid for steel gutters, realize that they are much more expensive than us, given the sheer profit margin.

This is an over head shot, showing the sunroof I now have with this new trailer. The center panel is the removable panel for the coils to be lowered in by fork lift. there are 4 screws that hold it in place.

I had to minimize the roof height in order to be able to reach the screws from the ground with out the need for a ladder. I can just barely reach them, but Tia is not able to reach. It also was the maximum height to get it in the workshop garage doors.

Questions?
What Do These Web Pages Offer?	What Do I Need To Keep My Gutter Machine In Good Order?
What Kind Of Trailer Will I Need?	What Would a Decent Gutter Machine and Trailer Cost?
What If I Need Help Building This Trailer?	How Do I Arrange to Train In Your Gutter Installation System?
What About Used Gutter Machines?	DMR Gutters Contact Information