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Gutter Prep/Install Training, Marketing, and Franchise Oportunity Information Page

Updated 10 / 2021

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What Kind of Education Packages Do You Have to Offer? What Do I Need To Keep My Gutter Machine In Good Order?
What Is The Cost Of Your Programs & Templates? What is the Cost of a Gutter Machine?
How Do I Arrange Training In Your Gutter Installation System? What About Used Gutter Machines?
What About Covid Health Restrictions? What Kind of Trailer & Machine will be Needed?
Do You Sell Just Templates for Me to Use? What If I Need Help Building a Custom Trailer?


From: James Steadman <jsal2001@yahoo.c*m
Subject: gutter training
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010

Hi David,
I wanted to let you know that I recently used some of the training you gave me. I installed two long sections of gutter, 60 or 70 feet each, so I used the gutter splice you taught me and they worked perfectly. I appreciate the opportunity you gave me to come to Portland and train with you. We covered a lot of stuff in one day and it was well worth the trip. It was very nice of you and your family to allow me to stay at your home. It was also nice of you to get up at 4 AM in the morning and take me to the airport. Tia is a great cook too!

Jim Steadman
Steadman's Rain Gutters
Bridgeport, Texas

(8/18/21) Golden Hammer Roofing in FL, Ph# (904) 880-2004

Why Should I Need This Sort of High-end Gutter Prep Training?

As you know, these days Homeowners are sharing their experiences they had with you as Contractor across the web over social media platforms like Facebook, Yelp, Nextdoor, Linked In, Insider Pages, Angie's List, and many other web communities. So, whether you like it or not, what your guys are doing is being reported and reviewed for all to see. Potential clients are now easily able to do a search to check out your reputation and once a bad review is posted there is no way for you to have it removed. If you or your workers are not trained properly how to do this work well it will adversely affect your future sales and that stain will last for many years to come. We can no longer afford to get even one bad review. Contractors can no longer to do business as usual. We are being held to a much higher standard. Accountable for our workmanship and how we respond to our client's complaints, or not. This training program can help you meet the demands of the ever evolving marketplace and perhaps give you an edge over your competion.

(6/7/21) AtlantaPainting Company in GA, Ph# (770) 551-0101

What All Do You Have To Offer?

Superior High-end Gutter Fabrication/Installation w/Business Set-up, & Much More:
Even if you already have your own thriving construction business with several crews; I can show you how you can better train your installers and stream-line their installation work with higher quality workmanship and parts to do better quality installations for an improvement in your reputation.

As you may have found, gutter contractors subs tend to be the most unreliable of the bunch. Flaky as hell and your reputation has suffered greatly as a result. Getting your guys to do the gutter work gets you in and out much more quickly, so you can get paid. It is a great way to keep them busy when the weather gets wet, since this is not nearly as weather dependant as other exterior work like painting and roofing.

As you can see this web site is by far the most comprehensive you will find anywhere on the Web, so you will find a lot of beneficial information here if you take the time to read through it. I also have much more to offer you if you are brave enough to take advantage of what all I have to offer.

I most often have worked alone, so I am not influencing a team, but I have influenced my competition, which is part of my team in life to build a better society. I offer one of the only gutter contracting business training programs in the States with higher standards than you will find elsewhere, which is heavily influence by my ethics in this training program. Are you that special person, who would like to be proud of their work, and have more of a legacy in the end to hand down to your children?

(11/12/20) Trent Brown of RoofRite in OR, Ph# (503) 984-0924

My students are not required to maintain the exact same standards I do after they finish my training program, unless they want to utilize my francise opportuniuty. But why teach you shoddy workmanship using low standard parts? You can choose to down-grade your standards, but it is important that I teach you the right way to do things, and try to impress upon you why this is most beneficial to your success in the long run. As well as best for your personal self esteem. As well as how you will influence others by doing the right thing. These processes are not more than what I do for each of my clients, so there is nothing that is over the top or unrealistic.

(10/23/20) Gary M. Greenwood of Vanguard Roofing in VA Ph# (434) 484-2372

This program can benefit you if you are:

  • Looking to become a Gutter Contractor, while avoiding the pit-falls of trial & error.
  • Already a Gutter Contractor, yet looking for ways to make your business more efficient w/better parts and improved marketing.
  • Looking to get into more high end copper gutter work with improved techniques.
  • Looking to venture into other more custom sheet metal design and fabrication.
  • A Roofer looking to expand your business to include making your own aluminum flashing and gutter replacement to keep your guys busy during bad weather. Instead of relying on subs, which tend to be unreliable and may have adversely affected your reputation.
  • Making and installing better rust free roof flashing in 30+ color choices, so it looks better, and more importantly how your clients may have a chance to take advantage of their roofing warranty, which is not an option with steel flashing.

I can assist you with all you need for this relatively low cost start-up business along with lists of suppliers and tools best suited for this work. Saving you a lot of wasted time and money.

(1/21/20) Eric McPeters of Paintwise Painting in WA (509)362-3227

What If I Need Training In Gutter Installation:

For more information than has generously provided you already here you will need to pay for my personalized one-on-one lessons done here in my shop, which can be much more than just how to miter inside and outside corner propperly. 

I will be happy to tailor this training to meet your needs and adjust the cost accordingly. You will most likely need to be able to spend a week or so here with me for a portion of this hands-on training, but if you are a really sharp cookie I have trained people to do 4 types of custom gutter ends within a day. You can bring others to train with you and take home the sample pieces you made for later review. Even bringing a Spouce is helpful to take notes and record your progress in photos and videos.

With my training program and optional franchise you can get:

(a) On-line and phone correspondence to set up this training sessions. Instruction before hand to begin some of the remote training, in order to help maximize your time while here.

(b) Learning the lingo and sales techniques that work, w/o placing your client under stressful pressure. You should get to the point you are selling at least half the bids you write by proving to them how you may not be the cheapest out there, but you are clearly their best possible value. Which will save you more time and $ than you could imagine.

(c) Provide you with a list of tools and suppliers that are best suited for this line of work. Beyond just your local warehouse supplier.

(d) A detailed work system to save you a lot of time, money, and working safer while doing higher quality work for an improved reputation.

(e) If you need, I will be going over marketing concepts and work with you to develop a starter web site to market your service for clients local to you, which can be linked to this web site if you want to take advantage of my franchise opportunity.  This will give you that professional image and save you a great deal of time on the phone answering common questions. It will also save you thousands a month on advertising costs, and help you find better pre-qualified and pre-sold clientele, so you are making more sales per bids you write.

(f) I can show you how to maintain a web site, and add your personal touches and photos.  A list of user-friendly inexpensive programs you'll need that we have tested over the last decade+ for web design, photo editing, and maintenance.

(g) Copies of print masters for your bids and sales brochures w/other paper work.

(h) Book keeping and tax information.

(i) You could even use our name; Dynamic Metal Rendering, and list yourself as an official DMR Gutters franchise to help give you a head start to impress new clients. With the full training and franchise, you will not have to worry about another Gutter Contractor training with us competing for your business within a 50+ mile radius of your location for as long as you are in business there w/o having to pay further annual fees. You are just required to maintain a high standard of workmansip, parts, good customer service, and warranty service.

(j) Going out to client's homes to do bids and actual gutter work, seeing how we interact with clients, with a hand-on demonstration of gutter installation.

(k) I will be demonstrating most types of gutter sheet metal fabrication and installation procedures, even if it is not relating to the jobs I have lined up.  You would be using aluminum material to demonstrate and practice on, so we can see that you are able to do this competently yourself.  You will be returning with samples and templates to refer to afterwards, which is very important.

(l) Post training and answer time on-line for some of the reminders and questions that will come up later on.

And more details that I may not have listed here.

(7/25/19) Portland Roof and Gutters in OR Ph#, (503) 601-9122

Gutter Installation and Business Training w/web site development for marketing:
There is a great deal of info and examples on this web site regarding gutter business, but it is not just the standard installation commonly seen. It revolves around a very high level of standards for quality and ethics that you will not find in the normal business model. I feel that if nothing else it is a smarter business model in the long run to focus on quality than your profit margin; saving thousands each month just in costly advertising and frustrated customers to have to deal with warranty service. Keeping the phone ringing for decades to come through more client referrals by building a reputation for high quality; that will become a valuable business name for you and your heirs.

This is not a quick-get-rich program. Most of which are just scams to pick your pocket. This type of work has a good potential of making a healthy living w/o having to work with highly hazardous materials or breaking your back. It has growth potential to possibly make you $50 to $150 an hour, but I feel some of the best rewards is the feeling of pride and satisfaction of your accomplishments providing a good service to your clients and helping to build values in America once again.

I also offer a franchise option w/o any annual pay-outs, like other franchises require. This can help kick start your business off the ground running, as long as you share and maintain my ideals of quality work and ethics. Although, you will need to be held to some very high standards, which many may feel too difficult to maintain.

(2/18/19) Melisa & Jake Raether of Gorge Gutters in WA, Ph# (509) 281-0684

Package Deal Cost:
As far as cost; for gutter fabrication and installation training with a comprehensive hands-on instruction with up to 2 students for a full work week would run
$3,000 for the mechanics of gutter prep and inastallation. Additional students are $500 each. For $4,500 you also get a couple more days for more custom parts fabrication: funnels, reducers, Leaf-catchers, mitered endcaps, and such with tempates and examples to keep. For $6,000 I will cover all I have listed above including business and marketing training with web site development training with a DMR Gutters franchise oportunity.

As I said above I am happy to customize this program to best fit your needs and adjust the cost accordingly. Even if you want to cancel the training in the middle I will accomodate your needs.

You could spend much more than this on just getting a decent web site designed for your business, so you know this is quite a bargain for all I'm offering here. It will likely save you more in the first year alone than the cost of this program.  This is a small start-up cost for most any type of business.  This will also greatly increasing your chances for success in the long run, where most small businesses tend to fail within the first few years. I have specialized in a hands-on gutter replacement business for over a quarter century now: since mid 1993 when I got my contractor's license in Oregon.

(4/13/16) Ashford Roofing in OK, Ph# (405) 206-0767

Single Day Cost Training Options:

If you are unable to spare more than a day or 2 devoted to this training I have these price options to consider:

 (a) $300 a day to hang with me and see what I do while asking questions. We will need to carefully arrange this time here, so you will be available when my scheduled work is doing the sort of work that would benefit you most. This does not include practice gutters and templates.

 (b) $600 a day to have me spend my full attention with you one-on-one while you're here training in order to show you these skills and have you make your own practice sample pieces to bring back with you to use as reference guides.

This is cheaper than many group seminars offered in other fields, where you just sit in uncomfortable chairs to be lectured at all day, so I know these costs are very reasonable.

(12/4/14) Kendell Roberts & Wife from Idaho to start his own Gutter Construction business

What should I do before contacting you?
Read through our web site carefully to get to know this business as well as you possibly can to learn the terminologies used. Not just this one web page.

Then write an essay on your current experience, qualifications, tools you have, and plans for this sort of business, so I can get a better sense of who you are and what you need from this program. Then mail that to me with your 1/2 deposit to begin this process and evaluate the cost of just what you want and need.

We will need your 1/2 payment of the tuition to scheduel this training course in and begin with our remote training on-line to prepare you before your trip here, which will maximize your training potential when you get here for the hands-on portion. The other half will be due when you arrive for your hands on training.

What About Covid Health Restrictions?
Yes, this whole issue sucks either way you slice it, and we are no fans of vaccines either. Oregon had completely opened up with the honor system for masking, which had shown to not be remotely reliable, so largely we have gone back to masking out in public again; even more than ever.

Realize how you are not considered vaccinated until you have gotten your second shot 3 weeks later, and then another 2 weeks after that to fully take effect. Are you the only person coming here? My wife is a medical professional and needs me to work safe, so she is not exposed and having to quarantine for a long time, which of course means she cannot go to work if there is a suspected exposure, so that she is not potentially exposing others.

Sure, I may not be at risk of getting deathly ill, since we were vaccinated months ago, but I cannot afford to be out of work for weeks as well. Also, My apprentice Jon has chosen to not vaccinate, so he is at greater risk, even though he has been very careful all this time. He cannot afford to be exposed and miss week or perhaps months off work.

We will need you to send us photocopies of each person’s driver’s license along with a photocopy of their vaccination record next to it through e-mail ASAP. Then just before flying out we need to have you and each person joining you to get the PCR antigen test done with enough days to get the results before your flight. You may want to get tested before buying your tickets, since they may not be refundable if you test positive. No quarantine as long as you all test negative. Then after arriving there is a cheap $24 rapid test to get at a local drug store here in Oregon to self-test for the antigen again.

In front of my workshop on 10/24/20

She wants all of us masked up whenever we need to be in close proximity and do most of this outside if possible. I had put casters under my workbench to wheel it outside and have a 10’ X 20’ canopy for cover that we have used a few times already. She will have chlorine wipes handy in the latrine to wipe down any surface that was touched or sat on. Aim was a big problem with the one of the recent groups, so they need to be better, please.

If any of us were to get ill from exposure we cannot even afford to take a couple weeks off, and I know you are not likely willing to pay me or my peeps for our time off work and suffering, so we appreciate your attention to these regulations to make this work out best for all concerned.

I am concerned for your wellbeing as well. Our numbers here in Oregon are low, so it may be safer for you here, but this illness can lead to long term disability that none of us can afford to suffer.


What About Just Buying a few Template Kits?

If you are not able to travel here to the Northwest I can also sell you individual sample sets with step-by-step templates w/details instructions to demonstrate some of the more complicated gutter work I have developed. Prices listed include packaging and freight.

  • $200 - most common 90 degree corner fabrication for inside and outside corner profile.

  • $250 - 45 degree corner fabrication for inside and outside corner profile.

  • $200 - Radius gutter for curved fascia board application (advanced work).

  • $125 - Roof trays; to avoid draining an upper gutters onto roof shingles (very important, yet largely overlooked).

  • $250 - Mitered end caps left and right side.

  • $200 - Expansion joints w/covers (very important, yet largely overlooked).

  • $125 - Larger 3X4 No-clog gutters outlet; w/o using an outlet piece for an even wider mouth.

  • $200 - Super outlets; for a 9" wide outlet used under expansion joints.

  • $200 - 3X4 to 2X3 reducers; 8 bend funnels in 12" and 15" size.

  • $150 - Large No-clog outlet designed for rain-chain and rain-cup application; w/o an outlet obstruction.

  • $250 each - for Leaf-catcher per size and style: 2X3, 3X4, 3X4 upper to 2X3 lower, and 45 degree 5 faceted baskets or just square mouth, which includes instructional video. Or $1k for all 6 templates and sample pieces.

  • $200 - Sealing dormer gutter that meet with the roof under a valley (very important, yet largely overlooked if at all).

  • $100 each - Fascia metal and roof flashing examples (please specify profile needed.

  • $200 - Vented and unvented ridge cap profile.

  • $150 each - for the simple 6 sided scupper fabrication in 2X3 or larger 3X4 profile.

  • Or $2,500 - for all 28 template sets as listed above: $4,050 value

  • $800 each - Fancy scupper fabrication made from common K-5 gutter w/liners. Specify style you prefer:

If you are serious about our training program read through dozens of web pages on our web site (not just this one web page), write an essay on your qualifications, experience, your business plan, and let me know just what all you need most.

Then send it to me in an e-mail and submit your 1/2 deposit for the training course.
Serious inquiries only.


What Kind of Gutter Machine/Trailer Set-up Will I Need?

Gutter Size & Profile:
They make a 5"/6" K style gutter machine, which has been very popular, but is a waste of money. Most gutter contractors who have this machine rarely if ever convert it over to the other gutter profile and wind up getting a second gutter machine to run the other size gutter. I advise you only get a K-5 gutter machine for several reasons. I can explain those reasons here, but it is best for you to use my machine before ordering your own.

How Long can a Gutter Machine Last?
I still use my gutter machine on a regular basis, as that portion of my work is still over half of what I do. These pages are not to sell my gutter machine or trailer, since that would put me out of business for a couple months or so to order another machine and make a whole new trailer. I've had my gutter machine since 1995 and it has not needed any major service in all that time. I replaced all the painted steel screws with stainless steel screws holding the outer shell panels on in August 2005.  Having been kept out of the elements since it was new has kept it in good working order, which is the advice I generously went out of my way to offer you here on this web page: 

Trailer Size & Decking:

As you will see on these several web pages I have designed our gutter machine trailer to be sturdy, yet as light weight as possible, so it can be pulled up hill by just a Honda 3.5 liter V-6 engine.  Light weight is imperative to be able to make it up steep hills, as well as having decent gas mileage.  The Gutter machine with one full 400# aluminum coil weighs around a ton plus the trailer weight.  So you have to pull that trailer weight with your vehicle loaded down with ladders and tools, so you are looking a good 7,000# to 10,000# in all including your vehicle weight.

The trailer also needs to have a special access hatch in the roof, so the fork lift at the wholesale supplier can lower the 400# to 600# coil onto your machine's spool or cradle. They do not make standard trailers with this in mind. It is good to keep it low height as possible, so that you do not need to use a ladder to remove the screws to open the hatch, as well as minimizing the wind drag and weight. Also is the height limitations of that forklift. The hatch needs to withstand freeway speeds while keep out the rain, be simple to open, and light weight as possible, while being very sturdy.

The trailer should be a double axel with one axel having an electric brake assist. It does not need to be longer than 12' plus the trailer tongue. A 10' long trailer floor was too short, but there should be no need for a 14' trailer. A longer trailer adds a lot more weight and makes it that much more difficult to manage in traffic and find parking. It should have at least a 4' to 5' width between the wheels with the steel frame built out to the outside of the wheel wells for the shell support; for a 5.5' to 6.5' interior space. It does not need to have a wood deck under the gutter machine its self, so it is best to not get a trailer that is already decked. A 2x4 deck in a light weight cedar or redwood is best for the floor of the trailer around the machine footprint, which will be lighter than a typical pine deck. Those boards may be a little more costly, but over just the next year you'll have saved more than the cost difference in fuel.

Vehicle Connection:
I prefer the type of hitch seen on these pages and you will need a tongue lift to get it on and off the towing ball. It is best to have the vehicle set up with a full set of clearance lights, back-up lights, separate turn signals, brake lights, and an electric brake controller with relays placed on each circuit to keep from melting your vehicle's electrical switches (which actually happened to me early on). I had the wiring professionally installed, but the steering column started smoking and fried my switches, costing me over $300 to have it replaced. I ended up having to rewire it all myself with the added relays.


What If I Need Your Personal Help Building a Trailer system?

Obviously I have experience with this and have worked out the bugs to design a strong light weight trailer shell to house the gutter machine in, so if you feel that you could use our help building a good user-friendly gutter machine trailer set-up like you see here, that can be arranged. I was tested to have a near perfect mechanical aptitude and seem to be able to brainstorm most any problem.  I can help you get one of these new machines and customize a good set-up that fits your needs best. For a price of course. If you are able to come here and help out with the fabrication, I'll factor that into the cost. E-mail me to get a quote to fit your particular needs.


What About Used Gutter Machines?

Most used gutter machines are worth their weight at the scrap yard, which is about $120. Perhaps more if you take the time to separate the different types of metals in it.

I do not deal in used machines as they are not worth fixing.  I do not know any business that buy used machines and tries to recondition them to sell, as there is not enough money in it.  A new gutter machine may not be cheap, but there is no advantage to getting a used machine.  A used machine will most likely be a rust bucket and needs to be fully rebuilt, which costs several thousand dollars and more time out of service.  And that is if you can find a technician local to you that knows what he is doing to fix it, which is very rare. 

Most gutter contractors will mount their machine on the back of a pick-up truck, leaving their machine exposed to the elements, and it become riddled with rust within just a couple years. Good gutter machines may have a some stainless steel rollers, but the bearings are not stainless steel. Nor is the main frame. The motor will most likely need replaced or rebuilt. Some of the custom parts (if they can be found), are very pricey, which could cost you more than the difference of a new machine, not including the labor to do all this research and rebuilding it. That is even if you can find someone who can do this.

If the machine is not in very good shape, it will dent the painted sheet metal with crumpled sections, if not just cracking and scratching the paint surface. Or worse yet, it is common that it will no longer form the gutter in the right shape in a straight line, and even have the sheet metal constantly bind up and jam.  I have seen used gutter machines advertised for as much as $5k to $6k, but that does not mean they are really worth more than their scrap metal value. I think the current price for scrapping mixed metals is about 3 cents a pound, so that's around $30 being it's actually worth, unless you are willing to take it apart to separate all the non-ferrous metals out of the machine. Then you might get $150 or so, but that is a lot of labor.

Wouldn't you rather just have a care-free new machine with all new parts and the latest technology?  Realize how down time will cost you a small fortune.  Even driving an old beat up work vehicle normally would cost more to a contactor than the payments on a new rig.  Every day it is out of service, you loose over $500 in lost productivity.  It will also hurt your referrals and sales to be running shabby equipment. Image matters a lot more than you might imagine and people do talk (online).


What Do I Need To Do To Keep A Gutter Machine In Good Running Order?

Maintenance of a good gutter roll-forming machine that has been kept out of the weather is hardly ever needed. The drive chains may need oiled every year or so, depending on how much it is used.

Keeping this machine in a covered trailer is best with a lot less road vibration from staying at camp base while not needed at the job site. Left on the back of your truck with you all the time and the extra travel time can wear on it and change the settings of a machine, which shortens the life of the bearings as well. This also saves thousands in fuel expenses, as well as wear on your work vehicle, since the fewer trips you make requiring you to have the gutter machine with you is very benificial.  Such as bids, supply runs, or just finishing up the job you had already started.

Another important detail to consider is how having this heavy machine with you also makes driving far more difficult to have that extra weight, so your stopping response time is compromised.  With the added weight of the machine behind you will also add to the impact in case of an accident, which would be much worse and cause more damage to you and your rig, as well as any other cars in close proximity. If the bolts holding it down were to to rust out, work loose, or just rip out of the thin sheet metal bed floor on impact; this 1,500# counter weight would be driven right into the back of your cab to mame, if not kill both you and your worker. Hopefully this will never happen, but your risk is greatly increased for these reasons.

I've developed a system where I only bring the trailer out with me less than 1 out of 100 trips I make with my work rig. You do the math.


What Will a New Machine & Trailer Cost?
A new gutter roll-forming machine costs around $6k to $12k, depending on features (not including sales tax or freight).

A good trailer could run you $2k to $8k depending on how much labor you're willing to invest yourself.  If you do more of the work yourself, like installing the deck and the building the shell, you can save a lot of money.  Don't be a cheap-skate here. Remember this is still a much smaller investment than most any other start-up costs for a new small business, and it should save you more $ in just the first year by using better materials.




Other Helpful Roofing Information
For some valuable advice with regards to roofing and rain management issues check out our:

(a) Gutter Installation
(b) Gutter Debris Protection Options
(c) Roofing Quality Standards
(d) Chimney Flashing

(e) Moss Control & Treatment

web pages for answers and solutions that could save you thousands of $ and a great deal of anguish.

If you do find this information very helpful, feel free to send us a $ tip for the assistance we so freely have published on the web here for your benefit, like you might tip a waitress.  Heck, send us a gift certificate for a candle lit dinner for two. <LOL>


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