K-5 Gutter Installation Training, Marketing, or Franchise Information Page

Updated 3 / 2016

Company
Profile
Aluminum
Gutters
Copper
Gutters
Custom
Work
Award &
Referrals
Personal
Ethics

Our Contact
Information

Question Bookmarks

What Kind of Education Packages Do You Have to Offer? What is the Cost of a Gutter Machine?
What Is The Cost Of Your Programs & Templates? What About Used Gutter Machines?
How Do I Arrange to Train In Your Gutter Installation System? What Kind of Trailer and Machine will I Need?
Do You Just Sell Templates for Me to Use? What If I Need Help Building a Trailer?
What Do I Need To Keep My Gutter Machine In Good Order?  

 

From: James Steadman <jsal2001@yahoo.c*m
Subject: gutter training
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010

Hi David,
I wanted to let you know that I recently used some of the training you gave me. I installed two long sections of gutter, 60 or 70 feet each, so I used the gutter splice you taught me and they worked perfectly. I appreciate the opportunity you gave me to come to Portland and train with you. We covered a lot of stuff in one day and it was well worth the trip. It was very nice of you and your family to allow me to stay at your home. It was also nice of you to get up at 4 AM in the morning and take me to the airport. Tia is a great cook too!

Thanks,
Jim Steadman
Steadman's Rain Gutters
Bridgeport, Texas
..

What Do We Have To Offer?

Superior Gutter Installation w/Business Set-up and More:
Even if you already have your own thriving gutter business with several crews I can show you how you can stream-line their installation while offering better quality installations and improve your marketing to save you thousands a month. This web site is the most comprehensive you will find on the Web by far, so you will find a lot of beneficial information if you take the time to read through it. 

This program can benefit you if you are:

  • Looking to become a Gutter Contractor, and avoid the pit-falls of trial & error.
  • Already a Gutter Contractor and looking for ways to make your business more efficient w/better marketing for less.
  • Looking to get into more high end copper gutter work.
  • Looking to venture into other more custom sheet metal design and fabrication.
  • A Roofer looking to expand your business to include gutter replacement, instead of relying on subs, which have adversely affected your reputation.
  • Making and installing better rust free roof flashing, so your clients may have a chance to take advantage of their roofing warranty, which is not an option with steel flashing.

As far as I know I have the only gutter and custom sheet metal training like this in the States. I can assist you with all you need for this start-up business with lists of suppliers and tools best suited for this work, saving you a lot of wasted time and money.

Here is a link to the most extensive photo sets showing copper gutter prep for you to study before taking my course. It will better prepare you for what you are to learn:
http://dmr-gutters.com/cg/Kistler1.htm

Also, here is a list of tools and instructions of how to install gutters to read over:

What If I Need Training In Gutter Installation:

For more information than DMR-Gutters.com has generously provided you already you will need to pay for personalized one-on-one lessons that can be much more than just how to miter a corner well.  I will be happy to tailor this training to meet your needs and adjust the cost accordingly. You will most likely need to be able to spend a week or so here with me for a portion of this hands-on training, but I f you are a sharp cookie I have trained people to do 4 types of custom gutter ends within a day. You can bring others to train with you and take home the sample pieces you made for later review.

With my training program and optional franchise you can get:

(a) On-line and phone correspondence to set up this training sessions; correspondences before hand to begin some of the training, in order to help maximize your time while here.

(b) Learning the lingo and sales techniques that work, w/o placing your client under stressful pressure.

(c) Provide you with a list of tools and suppliers that are best.

(d) A detailed work system to save you a lot of money and time.

(e) I will be going over marketing concepts and work with you to develop a starter web site to market your service for clients local to you, which can be linked to this web site.  This will give you that professional image and save you a great deal of time on the phone answering common questions. It will also save you thousands a month on advertising costs and help you find better pre-qualified and pre-sold clientele.

(f) I will show you how to maintain a web site, and add your personal touches and photos.  A list of user-friendly inexpensive programs you'll need that we have tested over the last decade+ for web design and maintenance.

(g) Copies of print masters for your bids and sales brochures w/other paper work.

(h) Book keeping and tax information.

(i) You could even use our name; Dynamic Metal Rendering, and list yourself as an official DMR Gutters franchise to help give you a head start to impress new clients. With the full training and franchise, you will not have to worry about another Gutter Contractor training with us competing for your business within a 50+ mile radius of your location for as long as you are in business there w/o having to pay us further annual fees.

(j) Going out to client's homes to do bids and actual gutter work, seeing how we interact with clients, with a hand-on demonstration of gutter installation.

(k) I will be demonstrating most types of gutter sheet metal fabrication and installation, even if it is not relating to the jobs I have lined up.  You would be using aluminum material to demonstrate and practice on, so we can see that you are able to do it yourself.  You will be returning with samples and templates to refer to afterwards.

(l) Post training and answer time on-line for some of the questions that will come up later on.

And more details that I may not have thought to add here.

Gutter Installation and Business Training w/web site development for marketing:
There is a great deal of info and examples on our web site regarding gutter business, but it is not just the standard installation commonly seen. It revolves around a very high set of standards for quality and ethics that you will not find in the normal business model. I feel that if nothing else it is a smarter business model in the long run to focus on quality than your profit margin; saving thousands each month just in costly advertising and frustrating customer warranty service. Keeping the phone ringing for decades to come through more client referrals by building a reputation for high quality that will become a valuable business name for you and your heirs.

These days Homeowners are sharing their experiences they've had with Contractors on the web through social media like; Facebook, Yelp, LinkedIn, InsiderPages, Angie's List, and many other sites. So whether you like it or not what you do is being seen and reported for all to see. We can no longer afford to do business as usual, since we are being held accountable if we respond to our client's complaints or not.

This is not a quick-get-rich program, since most of those are just scams to pick your pocket. This type of work has a good potential of making a healthy living w/o having to work with highly hazardous materials or breaking your back. It has growth potential to possibly make you $50 to $150 an hour, but I feel some of the best rewards is the feeling of pride and satisfaction of your accomplishments providing a good service to your clients and helping to build values in America once again.

I also offer a franchise option w/o any continual pay-outs like other franchises. This can help kick start your business off the ground running, as long as you share my ideals of quality work and ethics, but you will be held to some very high standards some may feel impossible to maintain.

Package Deal Cost:
As far as cost; for gutter fabrication and installation training with a comprehensive hands-on instruction with up to 3 students for a full week would run
$3,000 or 4,000 to cover all I'm offering listed above. I can customize this program to fit your needs and adjust this cost accordingly.

You could spend much more than that on just getting a decent web site designed for your business, so you know this is quite a bargain for all I'm offering here. It will save you more in the first year alone than the cost of this program.  This is a small start-up cost for most any type of small business.  This will also greatly increasing your chances for success, where most small businesses fail within the first 2 years. I have specialized in gutter replacement for over 2 decades now, since 1992. We have a guest room here, so you would not need to spend the extra $ for that and my wife is a pretty decent cook.

Single Day Cost of Training Options:
If you are unable to spare more than a day or 2 devoted to this training I have these price options to consider:

 (a) $250 a day to hang with us and see what we do while asking questions. We will need to carefully arrange this time here, so you will be here when my scheduled work is doing the sort of work that would benefit you most. This does not include practice gutters and templates.

 (b) $500 a day to have me spend my full attention with you one-on-one while you're here training in order to show you these skills and have you make your own practice sample pieces to bring back with you to use as reference guides. This does include practice gutters that you can take back with you, but not a set of templates.

This is cheaper than most group seminars offered in other fields, where you just sit in uncomfortable chairs to be lectured at all day, so I know these costs are very reasonable.

What should I do before contacting you?
Read through our web site carefully to get to know this business as well as you possibly can to learn the terminologies used. Not just this one web page.

Then write an essay on your experience, qualifications, tools you have already, and plans for this sort of business. Then mail that to me with your 1/2 deposit to begin this process and evaluate the cost of just what you want and need.

We will need your 1/2 payment of the tuition to begin the actual training on-line to prepare, which will maximize your training potential when you get here for the hands-on portion. The other half will be due when you arrive for your hands on training.

.

If you are not able to travel here to the Northwest I can also sell you individual sample sets of example templates w/details instructions to demonstrate some of the more complicated gutter work we do on K5 gutters. Prices listed include packaging and freight.

  • $150 - most common 90 degree corner fabrication for inside and outside corner profile.

  • $200 - 45 degree corner fabrication for inside and outside corner profile.

  • $150 - Radius gutter for curved fascia board application (advanced work).

  • $75 - Roof trays; to avoid draining an upper gutters onto roof shingles (very important, yet largely overlooked).

  • $200 - Mitered end caps left and right side.

  • $100 - Expansion joints w/covers (very important, yet largely overlooked).

  • $75 - Larger 3X4 No-clog gutters outlet; w/o using an outlet piece for an even wider mouth.

  • $150 - Super outlets; for a 9" wide outlet used under expansion joints.

  • $150 - 3X4 to 2X3 reducers; 8 bend funnels in 12" and 15" size.

  • $100 - Large No-clog outlet deigned for rain-chain and rain-cup application; w/o an outlet obstruction.

  • $200 each - Leaf-catcher per size and style: 2X3, 3X4, 3X4 upper to 2X3 lower, and 45 degree 5 faceted baskets or just square mouth, which includes instructional video. Or $1k for all 6 templates and sample pieces.

  • $150 - Sealing dormer gutter that meet with the roof under a valley (very important, yet largely overlooked if at all).

  • $50 each - Fascia metal and roof flashing examples (please specify profile needed.

  • $150 - Vented and unvented ridge cap profile.

  • $100 each - Simple 6 sided scupper fabrication in 2X3 or larger 3X4 profile.

  • Or $2,000 - for all 28 template sets as listed above: $3,150 value

  • $500 - Fancy scupper fabrication made from common K-5 gutter w/liners. Specify style you prefer: http://copper-by-design.com/cw/scuppers.htm#Options

If you are serious about our training program read through dozens of web pages on our web site (not just this one web page), write an essay on your qualifications, experience, your business plan so far, and let me know just what all you need most.

Then send it to me in an e-mail.

.

What Kind of Gutter Machine/Trailer Set-up Will I Need?

I still use my gutter machine on a regular basis, as that portion of my work is still over half of what we do. These pages are not to sell my gutter machine or trailer, since that would put me out of business for a month or so to order another machine and make a whole new trailer. I replaced all the painted steel screws with stainless steel screws in August 2005. I've had my gutter machine since 1995 and it has not needed any major service in all that time; having been kept out of the elements since it was new, which is the advice I generously went out of my way to offer you here on this web site:
http://dmr-gutters.com/gm/ 

As you will see on these several web pages I have designed our gutter machine trailer to be sturdy, yet as light weight as possible, so it can be pulled up hill by just a Honda 3.5 liter V-6 engine.  Light weight is imperative to be able to make it up steep hills, as well as having decent gas mileage.  The Gutter machine with one full 400# aluminum coil weighs around a ton plus the trailer weight.  So you have to pull that trailer weight with your vehicle loaded down with tools, so you are looking a good 7,000# to 9,000# in all.

The trailer also needs to have a special access hatch in the roof, so the fork lift at the wholesale supplier can lower the 400# to 500# coil onto the machine's spool cradle. They do not make standard trailers with this in mind. It is good to keep it low height as possible, so that you do not need to use a ladder to remove the screws to open the hatch, as well as minimizing the wind drag and weight.  The hatch needs to withstand freeway speeds and keep out the rain, while being simple and light weight.

Size and Decking:
The trailer should be a double axel with one axel having an electric brake assist. It does not need to be longer than 12' plus the trailer tongue. A 10' long trailer floor was too short, but there is no need for a 14' trailer. A longer trailer adds a lot more weight and makes it that much more difficult to manage in traffic and park. It should have at least a 4' to 5' width between the wheels with the steel frame built out to the outside of the wheel wells for the shell support; for a 5.5' to 6.5' interior space. It does not need to have a wood deck under the gutter machine its self, so it is best to not get a trailer that is already decked. A 2x4 deck in a light weight cedar or redwood is best for the floor of the trailer, than just a cheap pine deck. Those boards may be a little more costly, but over just the next year you'll have saved more than the cost difference in gas you've saved.

Vehicle Connection:
I prefer the type of hitch seen on these pages and you will need a tongue lift to get it on and off the towing ball. It is best to have the vehicle set up with a full set of clearance lights, back-up lights, separate turn signals, brake lights, and an electric brake controller with relays placed on each circuit to keep from melting your vehicle's electrical switches. That actually happened to me early on. I had the wiring professionally installed, but the steering column started smoking and fried my switches, costing me over $300 to have it replaced. I ended up having to rewire it all myself with the added relays.

.

What If I Need Your Personal Help Building a Trailer system?

Obviously I have experience with this and have worked out the bugs to design a strong light weight trailer to house the gutter machine in, so if you feel that you could use our help building a good user-friendly gutter machine trailer set-up like you see here, that can be arranged. I was tested to have a near perfect mechanical aptitude and seem to be able to brainstorm most any problem.  I can help you get one of these new machines and customize a good set-up that fits your needs best. For a price of course. If you are able to come here and help out with the fabrication, I'll factor that into the cost. E-mail me to get a quote to fit your particular needs.

.

What About Used Gutter Machines?

I do not deal in used machines as they are not worth having.  I do not know any business that buy used machines and tries to recondition them to sell, as there is not enough money in it.  A new gutter machine may not be cheap, but there is no advantage to getting a used machine.  It most likely is a rust bucket and needs to be rebuilt, which costs several thousand dollars and more time out of service.  And that is if you can find a technician local to you that knows what he is doing to fix it. 

Most gutter contractors will mount their machine on the back of a pick-up truck, leaving the machine exposed to the elements, and they become riddled with rust. Good gutter machines may have a some stainless steel rollers, but the bearings are not stainless steel, nor the frame. The motor will most likely need replaced or rebuilt. Some of the custom parts (if they can be found), are very pricey, which could cost you more than the difference of a new machine, not including the labor to do all this research and rebuilding.

If the machine is not in very good shape, it will crack and scratch the painted sheet metal. Or worse yet, it is common that it will no longer form the gutter in the right shape, and even have the sheet metal constantly bind up and jam.  I have seen used gutter machines advertised for as much as $5k to $6k, but that does not mean they are really worth more than their scrap metal value. I think the current price for scrapping mixed metals is about 15 cents a pound, so that's around $200 it's actually worth.

Wouldn't you rather just have a care-free new machine with all new parts and the latest technology?  Remember how down time will cost you a small fortune.  Even driving an old beat up work vehicle cost way more to a contactor than the payments on a new rig.  Every day it is out of service, you loose over $500.  It will also hurt your referrals and sales to be running shabby equipment.

.

What Do I Need To Do To Keep A Gutter Machine In Good Running Order?

Maintenance on a good gutter roll-forming machine that has been kept out of the weather is hardly ever needed. The drive chains may need oiled every year or so, depending on how much it is used.

Keeping this machine on a trailer also saves thousands in fuel expenses, as well as wear on your work vehicle, since few trips you make require you to have the gutter machine with you.  Such as bids or supply runs, or just finishing up the job you already started.  Not to mention less road vibration that can wear and change the settings on a machine, and shorten the life of the bearings as well.  It also makes driving far more difficult to have that extra weight, and your stopping response time much worse.  With the added weight of the machine will also make the impact in case of an accident that much worse and cause more damage.

I've developed a system where I only bring the trailer out with me less than 1 out of 10 trips. You do the math.

.

What Will a New Machine & Trailer Cost?
A new gutter roll-forming machine costs around $6k to $12k, depending on features (not including sales tax or freight).

A good trailer could run you $2k to $8k depending on how much labor you're willing to invest yourself.  If you do more of the work yourself, like installing the deck and the building the shell, you can save a lot of money.  Don't be a cheap-skate here. Remember this is still a much smaller investment than most any other start-up costs for a new small business, and it should save you more $ in just the first year using better materials.

.

 .

 

Other Helpful Roofing Information
For some valuable advice with regards to roofing and rain management issues check out our:

(a) Gutter Installation
(b) Gutter Debris Protection Options
(c) Roofing Quality Standards
(d) Chimney Flashing

(e) Moss Control & Treatment

web pages for answers and solutions that could save you thousands of $ and a great deal of anguish.

If you do find this information very helpful, feel free to send us a $ tip for the assistance we so freely have published on the web here for your benefit, like you might tip a waitress.  Heck, send us a gift certificate for a candle lit dinner for two. <LOL>

 

Back to homepage
Homepage

Site Map

.

Company
Profile
Aluminum
Gutters
Copper
Gutters
Custom
Work
Award &
Referrals
Personal
Ethics

Our Contact
Information

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

dmr-gutters.com