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Warning: There are several dozen different and seemingly clever gimmicks out there. Metal or plastic covers for gutters are over priced and don't even work (details below). You could have our copper gutters covered with our hinged copper leaf screen for what they want to charge you! With copper being worth 7 times as much as aluminum, which would you rather have? Also, it seems LeafGuard Northwest (the local franchise), has allowed their reputation to fall from poor workmanship and refusing to deal with their client's complaints; putting themselves in the Angie's List Penalty Box! Some of the positive reports seem fishy with compliments too good to be true when others had rated them so low.
For a good honest free resource to find reliable contractors |
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Note: Dixie Gutter Guard ® (out of business 11-05), K-Guard ®, Gutter Helmet ®, LeafFilter ™, Gutter Filter ®, The Gutter Brush ®, Gutter Love It! ®, Brookstone and Leaf Guard ® are registered trademarks. I have no connection to these companies or their franchises. Keep in mind that even though I try to be as unbiased and accurate here as possible, these are only our personal observations and conclusions I am sharing here. I have been in contact with National Leaf Guard ® head office and their legal department for approval of this web page and it's accuracy since early 2003. You can click on their names above to link to their official web sites to hear their side of the story as well. Also on our Site Map page I link to 40 different competitor's company web sites who all claim to have the best clog free gutter system on the planet. I am that confident about what I have to offer. |
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Why should we spend the extra money for clog-free gutters you ask? Assuming this is an issue for you, and these low-maintenance products truly work as they claim, these are some of the reasons to invest in some alternative to standard gutters:
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The High Costs of No-clog Gutters: I do not believe this should be so expensive, but most of these options are horribly expensive. Often more than new gutters and downspouts combined. Even if they worked as well as they claim, I feel that cost and function needs to be more reasonable. Most of these options are not only expensive, but even more expensive than my charge for copper gutters installed with stainless steel screws. What is even more important is what is under you gutters. Leaf Guard ® hinges their warranty on the use of larger 3" x 4" industrial size downspouts. Not the hoods over the gutters, since those hood systems don't even work. They may do a good job of keeping the leaves out of the gutter, but the small opening slit jams with debris and will not let water pass into the gutter, so you have a waterfall instead. In that case you might as well have no gutters installed and save several thousands of dollars. There is no perfect system out there, but I have developed a good system that is also a lot more cost efficient, and looks more conventional. More importantly it is more user friendly. I can show you how I offer a lower price, better parts, and higher quality installation than any other gutter contractor in the area. The cost of a DMR Gutters low maintenance package along with a full gutter replacement is still well below the cost of a Leaf Guard ® installation. My bids have been around half their cost. Still less even when adding the cost of other needed services like drip edge, new fascia boards, painting, and leaf-catchers. One reason is I do not have a huge overhead or pay for the expensive advertising they need to use to reach enough Marks in order to stay busy. Also, my gutters do not need to be replaced if they were to clog; with the simple access of the hinged leaf screens I use. I demonstrate how I really can afford to manage my No-clog warranty this way. Most importantly is the fact that if for some reason either company were not able or willing to uphold their warranty decades later; with our gutter system you will be able to easily rectify the problem! |
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The No-clog Type Gutter Comparison To Similar Companies Beware: I have some respect for Dixie Gutter Guard ® for their improved design and professional approach to marketing, but they were never here on the West Coast and went out of business several years ago. K-Guard ® has a better system than Leaf Guard ®, but they are not in our area as well, so Leaf Guard ® is the company I make most of the references to on this web page. They do have a clever design concept that easily swindles many clients willing to pay a small fortune for just aluminum gutters. I do agree that they will work well for a good long time in a debris free environment, but in that case you have no need for leaf protection. Most other web site who counter their effectiveness report that those gutters will still fill with debris. But my contention is about all the debris that does not go into the gutter and gets stuck in the narrow channel for the water to enter. You may not end up with an over flowing gutter, but instead you will have a nice decorative and soothing water fall on the edge of your roof line in spots where that debris gets stuck. You might as well not have gutters on your house at all. There are dozens of other companies out there who also sell a similar type of sheet metal or plastic hoods to go over your existing gutters, and I link to many of them above and on our Site Map web page, but although they do perhaps leave the gutter more accessible for cleaning (unlike Leaf Guard ® gutters) I would say that they still have inherent problems that are quick to fail. With some of these gutter hoods it is necessary to reposition the gutter a few inches lower (if possible) to get it to work right. After all that work and cost, you might as well have bought all new gutters anyway and in most cases will have to, since gutter removal will damage most gutters beyond repair. As opposed to what is over the gutter, I find that use of a level when installing gutters; making sure they have a slight grade towards the drainage outlet to be much more important. Also to install a larger outlet opening is far more effective. Very important details that most gutter contractors choose to ignore. I also feel that the cost should not be so unreasonable. I found a strong hinged screen cover that has 4 simple to install clips to hold it in place, which also act as the hinge; allowing easy access when needed. You can also see into the gutter to detect if there is a problem. These are far wiser and have a much smaller price tag. There is no perfect solution to debris and the moss that will grow in a gutters, but that is why it is imperative that the gutters are easily accessible when needed. The smart thing to do is find the best balance between looks, function, durability, and cost. Factors that do not cohesively blend. I may not offer an unrealistic life time warranty on my clog proof gutters like they do, but if it remains a good trouble free system for those those 10 years (when I am of retirement age), that is certainly all the proof you should need that it is the best system around. It is not likely to cause you sudden trouble after that time expires. I have no need to work in planned obsolescence. I suspect that these other companies have no intension to stick around to see how well their systems hold up. It is a common numbers game trick companies play on unsuspecting clients, just like the extended warranties they so aggressively push on many home appliances. They know all they need to do is change their name and contact info and the vanishing act is complete. Quotes for our solid copper gutters with stainless steel screw attachment, matching copper leaf screens, and the large No-clog outlets have still come in at $1k less than some Leaf Guard ® quotes for their aluminum gutters as recent as late 2006 (no joke). Bare copper sheet metal cost gutter contractors over 7 times more than the cost of painted aluminum, which is of coarse more expensive than painted steel. Even if a Leaf Guard ® gutter system was as good as mine; which would you rather have? Which would look better and give your house the better resale value? Most all Homebuyers know the value of copper. |
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Do Gutter Hoods Even Work? Here is personal story I was involved in several years ago: I had a client named Mr. Bronson, who ordered some covers for his gutters from the Brookstone catalog that use the same principle as Leaf Guard ®. He had a steep roof on a two story house, so he had me install them. Within one year he called me back to remove them and install the hinged leaf screens I recommended. He reported that with the metal covers pine needles would get stuck in the small opening, where the water is to wick back in. This blockage would encourage the water to pour off the end and caused a water fall over places like his doorway (no joke). |
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But What About Their Warranty? (a) They may guarantee that the gutters
will not clog, but that does not even suggest that the gutters will
continue to accept the rain water.
What didn’t work in 1908 doesn’t work today: K-Guard ® (Knudson Roll Forming) promotes itself as the pioneer in no-clog gutters. But that title actually belonged to Mr. George Cassens who had patented the two-piece reverse-curved gutter system in 1908. What Mr. Cassens designed may have been innovative in 1908 on paper, but his design was just as ineffective as today’s imitations and did not catch on back then either. Note: info and diagram credit goes to Leaf Filter ™ |
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Screens V. Hoods
Leaf Guard ® uses demonstration videos with shots of the galvanized steel hinged leaf
screen that I had used several years ago
(clever blokes). Leaf Guard ® showed those hinged screens in their videos as a bad example of what
people do to keep leaves and branches out of their gutters, showing them
all bent up and dirty with debris. But I had found a source
for stronger hinged screens with a black powder bake finish and 3
clips/hinges per screen, instead of only 2 clips/hinges, shown.
These new screens are also 4' wide instead of only 3' wide. I
have seen their
LeafGuard®
gutters become very stricken with mildew within a
few years and debris sticking out of the water entrance, but you will
not see that in their videos. These thicker screen material lessens the need for the arch needed for rigidity with the old screens I use to sell. This heavier weight also helps the screen to be less prone to blow open in high winds. The larger surface of area to permit the rain water to enter the gutters is at least ten times as much as any of the hoods can offer. This means it is far less likely to become so saturated with debris that it will not permit water to drain into the gutter. It is beneficial to have these screens up on top of the roofing shingles, so there is a slant downwards and the debris is much less likely to pile up on the screens. It normally blows off in the wind after it dries out. These screens will not keep all the pine needles out of course. I do not try to make any claims that they will. They will keep all the large debris out of the gutter, like leaves, pine cones, branches, and toys. <LOL> Those are what will jam up a gutter fast. That is the reason that they are clipped onto the outer lip of the gutter. The clips are also the hinge. They simply flip closed and lay on top of the shingle. Without even opening them, you can easily see if there is any obstruction. If you desire to clean them out, you can shove a cover over the leaf-catcher strainer, and then blast a garden hose water right through the screens to drive the debris and moss down the downspouts to dump on the ground. Sweep it up and it is done. With the warranty though, it is not necessary to even check the gutters for debris. If the gutter gets clogged, it will over flow over the outlet, since I set that to be the low spot in the gutters. If it does fail, it is my responsibility. I will not how ever be doing periodic inspection for you. You will need to contact us for us know there is an issue that needs resolved. |
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Problem Issues with the LeafGuard ® and Similar Gutter Design
Note: I did get permission from the owner to take these photos, and did not do anything to alter this scene. Click on the photo to get a batter look. Keep in mind that even though I try to be unbiased and accurate here, this is only my our personal observations. I have been in contact with National Leaf Guard ® head Office and their legal department for approval of this web page and it's accuracy since early 2003 (a)
Aluminum
Leaf Guard ®
gutter systems are very expensive. Note: our
solid copper gutters & hinged leaf screens are about the same cost, are stronger, and will not
mildew (as clearly seen in these photos) or leave any future painting issues.
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Metal & Plastic Hoods Over Gutters: Most of these alternatives look very strange on a house. Some of these have
to be mounted over the bottom rows of roofing shingles. Or
else the
gutter has to re-mounted 6" lower to the roof edge. That second
option is rarely possible and drastically raises the cost of
installation, since most gutters cannot be removed without damaging them. Most
houses I have worked on do not have a tall enough fascia board or
rafter tail to drop the gutter that low. I have run
out of attachment with just trying to get a slight grade to our gutter
installations, so they will not have any standing water in them. I am not interested in becoming a distributor to sell any sort of hood system, because even if they were to have a better design concept than the horribly flawed Leaf Guard ® gutter design, it still has the same inherent flaws that all the hooded gutter systems have, where they could not be warranted more than a year to continue and accept rain water into the gutters. They may not let the gutter fill up and clog, but you will still end up with a water fall across the gutter line. None of these hooded options are viable, and are a huge waste of money, as described in more detail below. One of the worst issues is how they make a perfect dark environment inside the gutter to grow thick moss in the gutters under these hoods and cause a failure. I have a photo of an open screened gutter I installed a decade earlier that had grown a 3" thick bed of moss under the galvanized steel screens seen here. |
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This is one of the more outrageous types products to come out, and the scary part is how there is now over a dozen different companies producing these type of products to unsuspecting homeowners, as listed on the right of brands of these insert sponges, or several other variation of this concept. There is also a large pipe cleaner to go inside the gutter, and a simple 3" plastic perforated flex hose, that you could find at any local hardware store, but their pipes are molded in a light gray plastic to fool you to think they are different. Again, they are at least twice the cost of the heavy duty screens I install, but that cost does not cover installation. For the first 5 years they may be pretty effective and trouble free, just long enough to get them past any sort of warranty period or a chance to contact the company who sold it to you for a refund, assuming they are still in business or there was no fine print absolving them of any liability. That again would not cover a re-installation. It does not take a genius to understand how the debris that will pile over the filter and will decompose. Working it's way into the pours of that filter and cause a complete obstruction and eventually not let water pass. But worse off is how this will make for a wonderfully fertile garden planter inside your gutters and the dark environment under it will breed moss wonderfully. They are making claims of a fungicide added to the product, but I do not trust these claims. If it is true, it is not something that could last more than the first 5 years. They will then be rather heavy and hard to remove out of the gutters being full of suspended mud and root structures inside the filter. You would also have a lot of moss grow inside the gutter that will jam it up within a few years, as seen in the photo above. |
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There are several brands of these sort of fine mesh stainless steel screens over some sort of support frame, as listed to the right. They vary slightly, but do not work for long all the same. You would be wasting your money on this kind of gutter cover. It is very expensive, but even if it were 1/4th the cost it would still be a huge waste of money. In this case more cost does not mean better. I would not bother to install it on my house if some one gave me these covers for free. In fact I have been offered that deal and declined. I have also removed plenty of it from houses and just disposed of it. I would not feel right to give them away. This has been the worst example I have run across for leaf protection for gutters hands down and they have written so many loop-holes in their warranty that it is effectively useless. Example: http://www.leafsolutionusa.com/product/elswarranty.pdf The main problem is the ridiculous fine mesh they use that is even a finer weave than a tea strainer (no joke). I have seen where window screen was used, which is far more course, but is still far to fine of a screen to work. The debris will cake over the surface of the screen before long and causes a waterfall situation over the outside of the gutter. These screens may be great at keeping any debris from settling in your gutters, but within a few years they will not even let water pass through as well. They become clogged with just a little mildew build-up or even dust and pollen. They also foster a very good breeding ground for thick clomps of moss under these screens inside the gutter, being so dark and damp inside. Another problem you would encounter is how this stainless steel mesh material is very thin and flexible like a stiff fabric, so they have to support it with a molded plastic or aluminum grid. The plastic will be destroyed by the UV rays of the Sun within a decade or so, just like with any vinyl gutters or siding. The ones that use aluminum for support would be destroyed by the stainless steel over time from a reaction called electrolysis. It is ill-advised to mix these 2 different types of metals. Some of these scoundrels are so upset with me for disclosing this sham that they have threatened me with legal action, but I have not been detoured. I could just as easily sell my clients on these screens as well. That is if I had no scruples. I am not a manufacturer of any gutter covers, so I have no motivation to discredit these sort of products, other than my desire to share the truth with those who would read these pages, where we clearly know what their motivations are. They will claim they have sold millions of feet of these screens and have had not a single complaint, yet those words are meaningless when spoken by a salesman, as we all well know from our own painful experiences in the past. Besides basic logic I do have proof these simply will not work. I have some of this short lived screen material to show people off a client's house I had removed after only 2 years of service. He reported it had worked OK for the first year, until the warranty lapsed. Now that is an example of planned obsolescence of the worst kind. That set of gutter covers had cost this client more than my set of new aluminum gutters w/hinged screens. Would you say he got ripped off with this $2k loss? Here is our correspondence after I examined his gutter problem: From: "Tom M" <tom@branchdist.c*m>To: <bid@dmr-gutters.c*m> Subject: Bid for custom no-rust sheet metal Gutter fabrication Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:35:41 -0800 I need to
replace my no clog gutter system that we had put on my house 2
years ago. You are right, they don’t clog, and they don’t
accept rain either. I am local and live at
The system I was gullible enough to
buy is called Leaf Filter, a membrane system. Right after they
installed it, it worked perfectly, in summer, before any debris
came out of the trees that I have on our property. As soon as
the winter storms came, debris covered the membrane, and the
water cascaded off the roof instead of going into the gutter.
The only way to make that system work would be to get up on the
roof every couple of days, and sweep off the membrane cover. It
had a short time period to complain, and initially it seemed
OK. From memory, I think the charge was around $2,000. The
company that makes leaf filter is not local, but they had a
local roofer install it. At this point, after 2 winters I just
want a better solution. I had to take out a couple of newly
installed plants along the side of the house because the
waterfall destroyed them. I’d like to be able to re-landscape
the area under the gutters this summer/fall. Tom
McDermott
Tom2047@hotmail.c*m
Our Response: Greetings Tom, Those brackets are standard strength
hidden hangers. The roofer was suppose to remove all the nail spikes and
use the hidden hangers to remount the gutters, but he clearly did not
follow the instructions and just put the hangers in the gutter loosely. |
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No-clog Warranties:
I don't put much stock in warranties for
several reasons: I have not found any clients who are willing to pay more for a gutter protection product than the gutter it's self, let alone something that will only last a short while and become a bio hazard. I trust you will see the logic here and agree. So who is buying these bogus products? Were they just victims of a slick high pressure sales program? |
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The DMR No-clog Gutter Advantages (Note: Keep in mind that even if I work to be unbiased and accurate here, this is only are our personal observations. I have been in contact with National Leaf Guard ® head Office and their legal department for approval of this web page and it's accuracy since early 2003)
I understand how most any home-owner would like to see a gutter system that had no downspouts, if that were possible. The last thing they want to see is these huge industrial size downspouts going down their siding. I realized in short order that it would lower the cost and look better to have the smaller 2"x 3" downspouts coming down their siding. I have found there is no need for the large downspouts for the strait drop into the underground drain pipes. It will not clog up. I have not had any call-backs from clogged downspouts in the last 9 years of doing the downspouts this way since 1996. If you are concerned with denting of the downspouts, thicker metal downspouts can be ordered through our local wholesale supplier. |
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What about Copper Gutters?
Cost? The
Brown aged Copper Look as the Trim Color? What about a
New Bright Copper Look? This is ill advised, since any clear coat will deteriorate over time under the UV rays of the sun, causing cracking and pealing. Which will quickly tarnish the exposed copper metal in those areas. It is very costly to have them regularly waxed, let alone to have them later stripped down, polished, and refinished. It is best to leave the copper raw and exposed. There is no treatment I have heard of to improve the life of the new look of copper. Be sure to take some good photos of the installation right after I am done, to see your house both ways. Advantages over Aluminum?
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Our Copper Gutters: |
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Replacement Alternative Another advantage of DMR is that I offer an option to upgrade your existing gutters to be much more trouble free, without having to completely replace your gutters. Also, if you do not have a serious debris problem, I provide the option to have new gutters installed with our 27 advantages as listed on our Quality standards web page, costing less if you do not need our low maintenance options. Even without our low maintenance package, our installations and warranty is still far better than any other gutter contractors in this Portland Oregon Metro area (see our Details page for more info). |
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Our Proof of
Integrity I know that sounds far fetched and egotistical of us to say I am so incredibly superior to our competition, but I do have proof of the high reputation I have worked hard to earn over the last decade of specializing in gutter replacement. Beside my Integrity Award from the BBB (as shown here), the gutter supply wholesalers like 'Custom-bilt Metals' and 'Gutterman's Supply, Inc.' have reported that I am the only contractors in this Portland Oregon Metro area who consistently buy the better quality parts. Custom-bilt Metals' phone number is: (503) 256-3328. Gutterman's Supply phone number is: (503) 285-2500. I also have better construction and design than Leaf Guard ®, and with a more believable warranty (see details below). Our standards are so high that I find that I have needed to order many of the parts from back East, like the hidden hangers, rivets, screws, and the end-caps I use. The local suppliers will not stock them, since there is such a low demand by the other gutter contractors for stronger and better parts. I alone do not have a large enough company to crash out the many jobs like other gutter contractors with crews of installers can, in order to make it worth the supplier's while to stock these better parts. It is a terrible shame that I am so rare and one of a kind in this way. I have had thought about franchising our name and system, but I have not found any other gutter contractors in the States who possess similar ethics as I do. I do not see it as a possibility. That is a sad commentary of our modern world here in the States! If you are such a person, read over our Training and Franchise web page for details. Unlike the fantasy movie: The Highlander, there does not have to 'Be only One'. <LOL> |
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"Quality and service is not expensive, it's priceless!" |
E-mail or
call
DMR Gutters
for a free no-obligation estimate,
for the finest in rain management.
as long as you are local to the Portland Oregon area
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Other
Helpful Roofing Information For some valuable advice with regards to roofing and rain management issues check out our educational web pages before you get ripped off again:
(a)
Gutter Installation Web pages for answers and solutions that could save you thousands of $ and a great deal of anguish. If you do find this information very helpful, feel free to send us a $ tip for the assistance I so freely have published on the web here for your benefit, like you might tip a waitress. Heck, send us a gift certificate for a candle lit dinner for two. <LOL> |
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Below is a
photo of our |
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I was also a 1997 finalist for this same award. See our referral web page to see how I managed to be honored with this special award |
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