Downspouts for Gutters

Comparison Page

Updated 3 / 2016

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Bookmark links to the No-clog options we offer
Function Plain Square Profile Rain Chains
Savings Corrugated Profile Rain Cups
Aesthetics Round Profile Hidden Downspouts
Terminologies Plastic Parts Singing & Atistic DSP 
Rain Barrels Larger No-clog Outlet Custom No-clog Work
Leaf-catchers Mini Scupper  

Here is the low-maintenance No-clog options that will give you a pretty much trouble free gutter system, and the DMR Gutters 15 year no-clog warranty
(see our warranty web page for those details)

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Why kind of downspouts are best for a gutter system you ask?

Overview:
If you are wondering about what type of downspout will remain functional and look decent here is some thoughts to consider. I realize most Homeowners would love to see a gutter system that has no downspouts if that were possible, so this is a very relevant issue.

I saw a modern house that had no exterior downspout at all. What you saw was some shiny stainless steel trays protruding out from the wall just under the gutters where the outlets were to direct the rain water back inside the wall, which must feed into a sewer pipe there inside their wall. This seemed clever leaving a nice clean look, but I fear what will happen when that sewer pipe becomes clogged with debris and over flow inside their walls. When this happens it will get really bad fast during that rain shower.

For the last 2 decades on a good 90% of the gutter jobs I've done I use a combination of 3X4 elbows, a 12" to 15" long reducer (that we make), and a standard 2X3 DS for the vertical drop, which feeds into a strainer placed at hip height for easy access. We call this strainer we call a Leaf-catcher (which we also make). Our Leaf-catchers have a stronger stainless steel woven screen with a 6X6 pattern per sq".

If there is enough eave we will often place the reducer diagonally feeding into a 2X3 elbow against the siding, which looks better, but not quite as functional as the reducer set vertically.

This system allows for a 2X larger outlet in the floor of the gutter dramatically improving the gutter function. We charge an extra $50 per outlet for this option, and I've had very few clients have us take off that option, but the Leaf-catchers are the main reason they hire me. This is where that 10% comes in. I am careful not to pressure them to go for the larger outlets, but they usually see what an advantage it is and are willing to pay the added cost.

It is best to cover the gutters with an inexpensive sturdy screen cover that has a wider pattern than the screen in the Leaf-catcher. This will help keep out the larger debris that clog a gutter quickly. Like branched, pine cones, big leaves, and toys that may get tossed up on the roof. it is unwise to try to keep out the smaller debris, which is why the larger outlet is so important with the strainer down below where it can be accessed easily.

There is no perfect solution that is completely maintenance free, and no one part advantage will manage the water and debris effectively, but this 3 part advantage is very effective; allowing the gutters to continue to accept water and continue to flow.

Valleys are problematic, as you may know. I have yet to find a gutter cover that will not fail in short order in this situation. I have had to resort to leaving the gutter open at the base of a valley and even place a screen up in the valley to stop that debris from sliding down into the gutter.

I do my best to talk clients out of the smooth round DS, because they dent easily and show those dents more than the corrugated DS. I just hate to try to mount a round tube over a flat wall. I also remind them those round DS will look more like they have external plumbing than a rectangular DS.

In a wet environment with any amount of debris rain chains are useless. They may look cute, but they splatter pattern on just a 1 story drop is a good 3' wide. Rain-cups (small funnels) work a lot better, but it can be frustrating finding you need to pick out debris once a month or more often. We make a special outlet with a 6" wide opening in the floor of the gutter, which funnels down to direct the rain water into the rain-cups better. It is important to suspend the rain-cups from a sturdy eye hook, and not a cross brace through the outlet on the floor of the gutter, which is a very common mistake.

Functionality:
There is little reason to have gutters if they will not continue to function without continual maintenance numerous times a year, since we know how most Homeowners will not bother to maintain their gutter system as needed. That's just our reality. In my travels downspouts seem to be the most common aspect to this rain management failure, yet it is one of the most overlooked details to a proper gutter system. Even if you do not like the looks of the corrugated downspouts (as shown below) the mess those other failed downspouts will cause will be far worse than the looks of a more functional downspouts, and save thousands of dollars and headaches over the next decade.

Cost saving Over the Long Run:
The safety issue for whom ever will be going up and down the ladder several hundred times a decade to clean out your gutters will save a great deal more than the most costly copper gutter system, as one accident would most likely be more costly.  The best reason is the money you will save on premature roofing and gutter repair from all the extra traffic on your roof and banging ladders against the gutters several hundred times a decade, in order to access gutters that need constant service.  That alone can cost you much more than the most expensive gutter leaf-protection products out there.  The less need to access your roof the better.

Looks:
Function is very important of course, and in most cases more advantage can be gained from just replacing the downspouts with a more functional system than getting new gutters. But face it; if it does not look good, that's still a major problem. Most of us would love to see our house designed with no downspouts at all, if that were possible.  Who wants to look at the external plumbing on their house?  We have to accept it as a necessary evil. We have prepared this web page to show you many of the options available. Although, several of these are no good, so I don't offer them as an option with my installations. Below this is an example of our custom fit downspout installation in copper, but the same can be had in aluminum.

Terminologies:
Here is a breakdown of the terms used for downspout parts to refer to. They are only examples of the corrugated rectangular downspout with rounded corners and curved connecting elbows, since these are the only types of parts we will use in painted aluminum or copper. The second photo shows a larger 3x4 No-clog outlet reduced down to a standard 2x3 downspout for improved function. You can click on these photos to get a better look.

Here's a smaller Pipe-cleat bracket on the left we use to use for downspout attachment prior to 2006, but now we use this larger Pipe-cleat on the right that's made for a 3x4 DS, but as you can see it can be used on a 2x3 DS just fine. It is also made with a thicker metal and is attached w/6 rivets, in stead of just 2.

Rain Barrels for Water Conservation:

It is true how rain water is better for the plants, because it does not contain the chlorine and fluoride you'll get from the faucet. Rain barrel will help your plants grow bigger and faster. Plus it cuts down on the water bill and conserves water. GO GREEN! I would not want to drink the dirty roof water I find in gutters, but plants actually need bacteria of dirty stagnant water to grow, like they get from fertilizer.

Here is a common rain barrel set-up, which shows how the Leaf-catchers we make help adapt to this for the warmer months. I made this simple chute that can be easily removed if the barrel get too full, so you then would have their normal storm drain system in place to use.

It is very important to keep in mind how here in the Northwest we get around 75% of our rain fall during the late Fall, Winter, and early Spring months when we are not watering any plants, so it is crucial to either have a much much larger water collection tank, or be able to divert that water into your storm drain system for that half of the year, so this system makes that very easy to do.

I normally mount Leaf-catchers just 3' above the ground, but they may need to be mounted higher to accommodate the rain barrel you want to use. The barrel also needs to be mounted up on a support block so you can get a small bucket under the spicket to extract water for  use in your garden. They also need an over flow hose that can drain back into your storm drain pipe for when the barrel gets too full.

There's also a company here in Vancouver, Wa that makes a clever device to catch rain water from your gutters and deliver it to several barrels or a large tank which may be placed in one central location behind your house, and even covered them up with a cute shed, so it looks less industrial.

Plain Square Downspout Profile

These small 1.75"x 2.75" smooth plain square downspouts are most often used, given their low cost made with steel. They are sold to clients as a simple and less conspicuous look, and often painted the same color as the house siding to hide them all the more. Gutters and downspouts are normally considered as trim and painted that trim color.  To keep them as cheap as possible, around 99% of these downspouts I've removed were made of just cheap steel and had rust out even sooner than the steel gutters, because of the wet debris trapped inside them to decompose and eventually not let water pass.  There is a simple test: if a magnet will stick to your gutter parts, they are only cheap steel.

Functionally these are the worst. The local supplier sell curved elbows for these smaller cheap downspouts, Although most Gutter Contractors who install these very rarely buy them for their clients, even on the fancy show homes for the Street of Dreams made in copper. I could not believe my eyes when I saw it.  They will be sure to fail within the first couple years.

Even worse is when they cut the outlet in through the back side of the gutter, as shown in the picture below right.  This may make the downspouts look the most inconspicuous, but the failure rate is much higher.  We've had lots of gutter jobs to replace only these inferior downspouts.

Conclusion: Fairly inconspicuous looking and cheap, but a terrible choice, as they are noisy and prone to jam up and rust out swiftly!   They go against our ethics, so we refuse to install them.

Corrugated Downspout Profile w/Curved Elbows

This style has shown to be the best for looks and function available.  The corrugation not only adds to strength, but also adds a more regal decorative look.  With the soft rounded edges, they seem much more pleasing to the eye and feel to the fingers.  These downspouts are about 125% larger than the plain square downspouts described just above. The plain square downspout can fit inside these 2"x 3" corrugated downspout pipes with room to spare.

The soft curves of these elbows are quieter and far less likely to become jammed with debris.

Homeowners often ask about a larger gutter profile. I could make more money offering a larger gutter, but in stead I offer logic to remind them how if the outlet is still the same small size the larger gutter will still clog just a s quickly. This style downspout can also allow for a larger outlet size, which greatly helps to keep gutters functioning properly allowing the debris to make the transition into the downspouts.

With the larger industrial size 3"X 4" elbows at the top allows for a 2X increase in the size of these outlets.  Greatly reducing the chance of there becoming a debris blockage even more. We then use a reducer to bring it down to a standard 2"X 3" downspout to help minimizing the appearance as well as the cost.  In cases where there is little to no eaves, we will mount the reducer right under the gutter it's self.

Over the last 15 years of doing this I've found no advantage to the industrial size downspout all the way down to the ground.  LeafGuard ® hinges their warranty on those industrial size downspout, and installs them as the whole downspout only so they are able to charge the customer 3 times the price for the downspouts as well as their over priced gutter, even though they still need to use the reducer at the ground level to fit into the 3" round sewer pipes.

Even with just the standard 2"X 3" downspout, you are still much better off than other downspout options.

We attach our downspouts using thick aluminum or copper decorative pipe cleats that are attached to the back of the downspout with 6 rivets before installation.  Then they are screwed onto the siding with stainless steel #12 Phillips screws.  This make removal much easier and risk a lot less chance of damage.

Here are photos of the pipe cleat wall mount bracket and the Leaf-catchers we make

Here is a close-up of a hidden hanger and screw, in an almond painted aluminum gutter

Conclusion: Best choice/value.

Examples of Our Custom Fit Downspout Work

Here is more example of our large industrial-sized outlet option.  The picture to the right is an example of what is called a 'B' elbow.  The double 'A' offset elbows shown here are used to go around that steel pipe vent going up the siding.  We decided to drop the rain water from the main gutter section, instead of punching a hole in the gutter near the end cap. That was so the water and debris did not have to go around these two corners in the gutter. It would have made the downspout a lot shorter, but the drainage would have been much less effective.

We stock 5 times as many elbow configurations than most of the other Contractors for a better custom fit to your house, as seen here and below.

Round Downspout Profile

These can function OK if they are installed well, but they have numerous problem issues to the extent that I refuse to install them as well. They are quaint looking, but there are several good reasons they were made obsolete half a century ago. It is only a matter of ignorance to these issues they've begun to bring them back into fashion. As a deluxe feature no less, since they are so expensive!

Back when they first came out with these, they had not developed a more complex roll forming machine to make the corrugated downspouts yet, which we are more familiar with today. The corrugation helps to strengthen this thin sheet metal used for most all types of downspouts. It would be nice to have thicker metal used for downspouts, like with the building codes that govern the thickness of metal for gutters.  It is not even a matter of cost.  It is more about the seam that needs to be folded and sealed on the back side of the downspouts 4 layers thick.  If the sheet metal was thicker, it would be that much harder to form this seam and not crack the sheet metal from over bending it.

Here are some of the problem issues with round downspouts:

(a) they look too much like external plumbing.  Gutters and downspouts should be decorative or inconspicuous.
(b) they are mounted sticking out from the house 50% more than a rectangular downspout that handles the same volume of water which makes them more visible and dented more often.
(c) Round downspouts are made with very thin sheet-metal that is prone to easily dent, and when they do they show these dents like a sore thumb.  Much like looking at a dented up trumpet or tuba.
(d) Round downspouts are hard to install, and are not very stable with regards to secure mounting on your house. They are hard to check the vertical alignment with a level, and assemble the elbows. They are more difficult to crimp the end that needs to fit into the other pipe. Without 3 rivets for each connection, the connections are not as stable.
(e) We have had trouble with the back seam sliding and twisting the downspout, causing some odd warping.

Conclusion: expensive, tacky looking, dent too easily, and shows dents badly. Very poor choice. They go against our ethics, so we refuse to install them.

Plastic Downspout Profile

Plastic Downspouts:
The plastic gutter parts are a waste of money. Even though they will not rust they are prone to UV damage from the Sun, which causes them to have a shorter life-span than steel gutter parts.  Just like the vinyl siding we are seeing fail far short of their promises, these are a very poor value and not worth the trouble to install.

Below are photos I took just before replacement. The debris strainer would clog quickly, but when it worked as it was designed to, it would dump this junk on the ground in a nasty pile. Most of the time it would become caked with debris and make the rain water splash out onto the ground, in stead of following the downspout. If you happened to be walking under it when it releases, you are bound to get a nasty surprise. These clean-outs are too high to access for manual removal of this blockage without a ladder. Far from user friendly. You are just as well off without any gutters on your house.

In general they are: expensive, Limited colors, look bad with all the external support brackets, do not work well, highly prone to leaks, too weak to support a ladder against them, become dislocated easily, and will not last more than a decade or so.

Conclusion: Very poor choice.  They go against our ethics, so we refuse to install them.

Rain Chains as Downspouts

In areas where it does not rain much rain chains seem to be much more common place. Large steel chains are normally used to guide the water to the ground onto a pile of rocks or large grate that feeds down into a French drain or proper storm drain. 

In the situation in these photos there was no good way to have mounted a downspout on the side of the house, with all the large windows of our dining room.  This large steel chain may cost even more than a copper downspouts, but many people feel it looks classy, not realizing how poorly it will work or look years later, turning rusty and covered in slimy mildew.

Even considering the nice earthy look, they don't really work well.  The chain going up through the outlet acts as a obstruction and quickly dams up the gutters, as seen in these photos.  Even if they are clean frequently, much of the water still misses the chain all together and splatters on the rocks below, as seen in just a light pour in the photo below right.

Worst of all is how it makes the chain slimy and nasty with fungus, which can be a health hazard, especially with children who think it's a fun rope swing and wind-up yank the gutters down onto their little heads.  We do sell some large link decorative copper chains that will not mildew, but they still will not channel much of the rain water.

Example of a chain problem:
We were asked by our former Mayor, Bud Clark, to evaluate a solution to the work he did on his two story house in NW Portland near Downtown, where he had installed chains to replace his downspouts.  He realized how much of the water did not follow the chain.  In order to catch most of that rain water he cut the chain about 3 'shorter so he could attached 5 gallon plastic buckets on the bottom of the chain.  They looked terrible full of gross stagnate water. They had to be suspended off the ground, since wind on the chain would push the buckets sideways and make noise dragging them from side to side. The bucket would fill and then over flow to dribble down the sides.  That standing water would become green and murky before the water would evaporate out.  I'm sure you can imagine how this looked, but can you imagine how heavy this was tugging down on the floor of the gutter?

Even without these catch buckets, these chains are a very heavy addition to the gutter and most gutters are not installed that well to handle that extra weight.  Even with the hidden hanger with a pair of stainless steel screws we use to install gutter with, it is still too much weight on the gutter.  Now imagine how heavy this would become when caked with ice in the winter time.

Tulip Rain Cups in IceTulip Rain Cups in Ice

Conclusion: Functionally rain-chains are a terrible idea any way you slice it!  They are expensive, a health risk, and do not work as you would imagine.  They go against our ethics, so we refuse to install them.

Rain Cups or Funnels as Downspouts

These copper rain-funnels will keep most of the water in a controlled fall with a lot less splattering than chains shown above. Being made of 32oz solid copper and brass wire they will not mildew like steel or plastic chains.  They look rather charming and deter children from swinging on them, since there is nothing good for them to grab. Actual cups would seem like a good idea to slow down the water, but they would have dirty standing water that could become quite nasty and be a mosquito breeding ground, so these funnels have proven to be most trouble free of their kind.

FunnelWe resell several different rust free designs that range from $15 a foot for the 3" wide, or $30 per foot for the fancier designs with a cute leaderhead, like the Tea Pot over Tea Cups set, or the Watering Can over Flowers set for $180.  They can even be used to focus the rain water into a standard 4" sewer pipe instead of a large storm drain.

There's also different half round design with a flat back made for mounting separately on a house's siding where there is shallow or no eaves. A set of downspout elbows above it can be used to deliver the rain water back to the siding and down into your storm drain.  Contact us for more details and alternatives, as we are not limited to these few options. I also specialize in fabricating original designs.  See our http://copper-by-design.com web site for more details for custom designs made to order.

The one pictured here is the Crocus Rain-cup design and costs only $15 per foot  installed and come in 6' lengths that can be stretched out with 4 gauge copper wire S hooks.  You can see more design ideas at the Good Directions wholesale web site.  Here's a couple still shots I took in action.  You can click on the photos here to see them larger with more detail.

We also designed a better outlet for these to help reduce the blockage issue while funneling the rain water into the cups. We also sell this outlet for the DIY enthusiast in painted aluminum or copper. They are fairly simple to install with the right tools. I made a separate web page that shows step-by-step how to cut and mount this sort of special outlet, so click on this image below to see it:

 

Conclusion: Raincups look real cute, but are a little pricy compared to aluminum DS. They can work well as long as you have sewer drain system directly under them to carry the water away from your foundation and not kill your plant fro excess watering.

Rain cupsRain cupsRain cups

This shows one style of wall mount rain-cups I've made with a 20oz copper back splash plate and thick 32oz copper funnels mounted with stainless steel screws. this sort of cute waterfall can be designed in a variety of different ways or  styles to suit your needs. Wall mounted or on a post like shown below:

Wall mount rain-cupsWall mount rain-cups

Hidden Downspout Profile

Hidden Downspouts:
I
don't happen to have pictures of this type, but I've seen cases where the downspouts were built inside the wall of the house, so all you see is the upper part of the downspout returning to the siding and going through the siding or bricks up high. I saw one house built with a series of stainless steel trays up high jetting out from the wall extending out to the gutter to catch the rain water under each outlet to divert the rain water back into the wall and funneling into the plastic sewer pipes directly.  This does not allow for an accessible debris strainer to help keep that natural debris from jamming up the storm drain pipes.  If they were to back-up (which commonly happens), this would overflow inside the wall and cause some serious damage to your house. It would be very costly to open up the wall from inside or outside to unclog it, but by the time you figure out what the problem is the damage is already very serious.

Conclusion: This is the most inconspicuous, but a terrible idea for any long term solution! I would refuse to install this kind of rain management system.

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Singing & Artistic Downspouts

I didn't do this myself. This may be the worlds first copper musical downspout and water feature. When water is fed from the gutter, waterwheel axle powers a music box that plays Canon in D major. The Treble Clef is mechanically functional downspout when it rains and also works off a pump in dry season. This amazing 14 foot, 200 pound functioning downspout is installed in Portland, OR. Visit: artofrain.com or call for more info @ 360-891-6540

Wall mount rain-cupsWall mount rain-cups

Below is actually on a building in Germany. When it rains, this unique colorful wall becomes a charming musical instrument. Referred to as Neustadt Kunsthofpassage, when water runs through the drain pipes and gutter system that are attached to the outside of the building, they become an awakened orchestra.

Wall mount rain-cupsWall mount rain-cups

Conclusion: These are the most artistic and you would gain a lot of attention from them, but it would be very expensive to design and install this kind of rain management system, so you need to ask yourself 'How much could I love my downspouts'?

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Some of Our Extraordinary Custom Downspout Work

Super-size Basin Oulet/Tray:

Custom No Clog OutletThis is a ultimate in a no-clog outlet, but it is not an option we normally include in our bids, unless specifically asked for.   This was the finished product from the wishes of a customer in West Linn Oregon.  The customer had a 55 foot gutter, with a lot of pine trees above the roof.  He was fed up with the constant grief he would get from debris filling the gutters.  He requested to have the gutter split in half and dump into a basin of some sort.

Knowing what he had described would look terrible, and would not give us something to attach the basin to, we came up with this one piece unit that is also part of the gutter it's self.  We covered the top of the basin under the eaves with a screening to keep the critters out, but we left it openable in the case it ever needed clearing out.

It then funnels down into a 3"x 4" downspout pipe, which is twice the size of a normal downspout.  It cost an extra $450 instead of only $40 like the over size outlets we normally install, so it may not be for every one, and does look a bit extreme.

Corner Rain Catcher:

This is a custom aluminum catcher basin I made back in 1996. I designed it to catch the rain water from a valley like this.  It was made from a straight 3' 10" gutter with each end mitered, instead of just slapping on a pair of flat end-caps.  It has a 3.5" x 4.5" funnel mounted in the bottom as the outlet, then reducing into a standard 2"x 3" downspout going straight down the corner of the house.

The cost for this is calculated from the basic cost of the gutter work needed to form this:
$16 for the 4' gutter length
+ $150 for the cost of mitering 1 corner and 2 mitered ends
+
$50 for sealing the funnel below
=
$216 total installed

It is unwise to screen over this, since only a small amount of debris would cover over the screen and cause the rain water to cascade over the outer edge of this custom gutter. Sadly there is no gutter cover I've found that can be successfully use in this sort of situation. This is why the Leaf-catchers we make are so important and the most popular feature we have.

Higher Headroom Tray:

This was the finished custom product for the downspout feature for a gutter over the back deck on a house in Southwest Portland Oregon.  As you can see from the glass sliding door and windows how the gutter over the back deck was actually lower than a doorway and a regular downspout parts would have been less than 5' above the deck back at the wall. 

I came up with this one piece unit to keep the rain water transition up as high as possible, since the headroom clearance was at a minimum.  I designed it open at the top for easy access, since there is so little slope and may be at risk of debris constrictions.

It then drops into a custom 3.5"x 4.5" downspout reducer that funnels into a standard 2" x 3" downspout.  the picture below shows just one side of the gutter over lapping into the custom tray.

We charged about $200 extra for this sort of custom scuppers, instead of a normal downspout charge, but is these cases it is a huge advantage over a normal downspout.

Simple Mini-scupper:

Here's a custom aluminum catcher basin I made nearly 2 decades ago to solve an issue this client was having, where the rain water coming off the roof would overwhelm a normal gutter, and completely fail with just a small amount of debris getting washed down off the roof.

This will catch the rain water from a narrow valley outlet some houses may have like this.  It was made from a short straight gutter, with each end mitered, instead of just slapping on a pair of end-caps.  I flattened the back side to make the bottom a bit deeper and made a new higher back plate sealed to this.  It has a 3.5" X 4.5" funnel mounted in the floor of it as a larger outlet. Then reducing into a standard 2X3 size downspout.  This has a double 'A' offset elbow right under it to divert the rain water back to the downspout on the siding.

We didn't need to go to this trouble to miter the ends, but it just makes it look a little nicer without going to too much trouble, like we do with the full Scuppers we custom make to order.

This demonstrates the effort I went to early on to solve our client's issues they may have. I continue to brainstorm innovative solutions. I'm not a Gutter Contractor who's only willing to just pull parts off a shelf and suggest that's the best that can be done.

 

 

 
Bookmark links to the No-clog options we offer
Deluxe Hinged Leaf Screens Larger No-clog Outlet Leaf-catchers

Here is the low-maintenance No-clog options that will give you a pretty much trouble free gutter system, and the DMR Gutters 15 year no-clog warranty
(see our warranty web page for those details)

 

The Comparison to Our No-clog Gutter System
(click on the image below to go to that web page)

Above is an actual LEAFGUARD® gutter cross section profile that we have to show clients the clear difference of our stronger and more functional gutter system

"Quality and service is not expensive,
it's priceless!"

.

 

 

Note:  LeafGuard ® is a registered trademarks. We have no connection to their company or franchise.
We have been kind to link to their official web site every place we list their trademarked name below

 

 

Other Helpful Roofing Information
For some valuable advice with regards to roofing and rain management issues check out our:

(a) Gutter Installation
(b) Gutter Debris Protection Options
(c) Roofing Quality Standards
(d) Chimney Flashing

(e) Moss Control & Treatment

web pages for answers and solutions that could save you thousands of $ and a great deal of anguish.

If you do find this information very helpful, feel free to send us a $ tip for the assistance we so freely have published on the web here for your benefit, like you might tip a waitress.  Heck, send us a gift certificate for a candle lit dinner for two. <LOL>

 

 


Below is a photo of our
Better Business Bureau's
NW Business Integrity Award
for the year 1998

1999 Better Business Award

We were also a 1997 finalist for this same award. See our referral web page to see how we managed to be honored with this special award

 

 

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