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Low-maintenance & No-clog Gutter Options Page Updated 8 / 22 / 2011 |
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Company Profile |
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Gutter Replacement |
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No-clog Options |
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Custom Fabrication |
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Chimney Flashing |
Roofing
& Skylights |
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Business Equipment |
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Assuming these debris protection devices truly work as claimed (most don't and are far too expensive to be practical) why should you spend the extra money for gutter covers and larger outlets? If you are a Homeowners who suffer substantial problem with tree fall-out read below for some logical reasons to consider and more practical solutions at a reasonable cost. We have a 4 part advantage to a low
maintenace gutter rain management system that will allow continual
functionality: |
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| Bookmark links to the options offered by DMR Gutters | ||
| Metal Leaf Screens | Leaf-catchers | Other No-clog Outlet Configurations |
| How Well Gutters are Installed | Larger No-clog Outlet | |
| Custom Downspout Work | Super No-clog Outlets | |
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These are the low-maintenance/No-clog options that will give you a pretty much trouble free gutter system for our realstic 15 year no-clog warranty (see our warranty web page for those details) |
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| Reasons for Gutter Covers and Other No-clog Options: |
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(a)
Time & Money: There is the
obvious advantage of savings you'll get for adding a low maintenance rain management system that
won't need the regular service of standard gutters you're familiar with. That
is if these options are not too expensive. I do not believe a gutter cover
should cost more than a gutter no matter how well they claim it works. Even if you do not clean out the smelly disgusting debris yourself; the time you save finding someone you can trust and rely on to come out and service your gutters a couple times a year. Then to watch over them to make sure they don't cause more damage than they're helping with. That should be well worth the extra cost alone, but many people cannot seem to justify this cost for that issue alone. |
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(b)
Damage: I feel the best reason is the savings
from
premature roofing, painting, and gutter repairs from all the extra traffic
up there to your roof line in order to clean out the gutters so often, year
after year. At best they'll leave lots of dirty marks and scratches on your
house paint when they lean their ladders on the siding or pressed against
your gutters in order to access your gutters to clean them out. Banging ladders against
your gutters several hundred times a decade will cause not only unsightly scratches,
but lots of dents in the outer edges of the gutters, since even most
professionals will not use the padded ladder stabilizers I do. If you have a low slope roof most will clean the gutters from on top of your roof instead, but that's not much better, since the extra traffic on your roof will shorten the life of your roof bit by bit. Especially if you have a metal roof. These issues can cost you much more than the most expensive gutter leaf-protection products out there and make the house looking beaten up over time. Clearly, the less need to access your roof the better. |
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(c) Safety: this issue with whom ever will be going up and down those ladders several hundred times a decade to clean out your gutters is substantial, since one accident would most likely cost more that these sort of options that should minimize the need to access your roof. |
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(d)
Our Research:
with my passion for ethics, honesty, and integrity (as represented by the
Business Integrity Award I got from the BBB), I pride myself on
presenting you with a clear and unbiased evaluation of the effectiveness of
the different leaf protection products out there against their cost. In
an effort to help you from wasting time and money on a product that may seem like a great idea, but will
not work as claimed. There are several concepts sold that seem
very clever, but find they only work in a debris-free situation. Which
make them completely
pointless. I've done my best to search the world over for the best and most cost efficient solutions to this problem. Below is what I have come up with so far. I have yet to find a better solution to the debris plaguing gutter function than these products regardless of cost. But I'm always open to suggestions, so feel free to go to our 'Contact' web page and write to me about any ideas or other products I may not have had the chance to concider. I've written another web page going over the comparisons and log term functional details of the most well known debris protection options out there. Go to my 'Comparison' Page and read over these options in more detail. I calculate these low maintenance options itemized on each bid with no pressure to take all or nothing. I would say less than 20% of our clients in the last decade had us install gutters without those options, since natural tree fall-out is such a huge issue in the Northwest here. Even though I am just a small Gutter Contractor I've personally serviced over 2,300 houses with new gutters since 1992, so you see I do have a sizable amount of research information gathered to form z proper evaluations here. Again, we are open to your
input. For a detailed No-clog
Gutter comparison
page Above left is an actual aluminum LEAFGUARD® gutter cross section profile that I have to show clients the clear difference. The right image shows a more user-friendly leaf screen over my 20oz copper K-5 gutter for about the same cost. which would you rather have? |
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Below you'll find detailed descriptions of the 4 part No-clog options we offer our
clients w/each gutter bid If you are not local to us and your local gutter contractors do not offer these options, you can get these parts through us. Simply go to our 'Shipping' page to find out the cost and procedure |
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Note: LeafGuard®
is a registered trademarks. We have no connection to their company or franchise. |
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First line of defense is the leaf screens I install |
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The most common concern I get from most potential clients is: They wont keep everything out of my gutters; like pine needles This is true and I don't try to debate this detail. If a cover can keep out that sort of small debris that filter will also become clogged and not allow rain water in before long. I wish there were a perfect solution, but I have yet to see it at any cost. I link to dozens of company web site selling that sort of over priced snake oil on my Site Map page: http://dmr-gutters.com/links.htm#Parts This is why it is so important to have larger outlets, which LeafGuard® also hinges their warranty on. Many ask if they need a larger gutter. I remind them how if the outlet is still the same small size it will jam and fail just as quickly no matter how big the gutter is, so that would not make much difference. Even more importantly is the heavy moss growth inside the gutter under any gutter cover. Nothing short of copper gutters will keep this from happening here in the NW. Most Homeowners never get a chance to see this much moss growth, because they are not able to leave the gutters alone for a decade. Here's what it looks like after just 7 years or so of trouble free service under these galvanized hinged screens I used through the 90's: I have removed gutters on thousands of houses and I had never seen this sort of moss buildup before. These gutters I had installed 7 years prior were still draining. This demonstrates how he was truly able to leave his gutters alone since I had installed them. This client happen to see my rig driving around and called my cell# to ask how much I would charge to clean his gutters. I reminded him it wouldn't cost anything if they've failed to drain properly. He said they were still working fine, but imagined it was time to have them cleaned. I still cleaned them for free and took this photo. How effective are just screens alone?
To the right is a close-up photo of the type of leaf screens I've used since 1998 for use with aluminum or copper gutters with one of the screens shown about to be installed.
Stainless steel: would work, but they are more expensive than these copper screens, so it is to pricy for aluminum or even copper gutters. Aluminum screens: are too fragile and too light, so they simply will not work. They get blown off in the wind, or cave into the gutter from piles of debris on them. Steel screens: that I use are a strong product that has a black powder-bake coat over the expanded metal. Personally I hate steel, but screens do not have to hold water like a gutter does, so rust is much less an issue. This is the best products I have found at a reasonable cost. (these photos below also show the way I add expansion joints to long lengths of gutters to free up the pressure on the sealed corners, to avoid future leaks from the expansion and contraction of the sheet metal gutters, which is different than a wood structure) These photos below also show the way we seal the end of a gutter at the base of a valley to catch that water, instead of cutting the bottom of the gutter open there to dump that gunk on the roofing, causing a mossy trail and wearing the shingles from that river of water running down the roof. Advantages of our leaf screens over other products avialable:
Strength:
Stability:
More Trouble Free:
Cleaning Simplicity:
Effectiveness:
Reliebility:
Cost:
Longevity:
Do Gutter Hoods Really Work? If you have no debris issues they will work swell, but of course that would mean you have NO need for a gutter cover. I've personally seen many examples where they will get jammed with debris in the small area for the water to enter the gutter and will create a waterfall situation kiling your landscaping or worse. These companies are not obligated to solve this or refund your money, since the gutter did not clog, but why have gutters if they are not going to manage your roof water? Example: We had a client named Mr. Bronson, who ordered some covers to install over his existing gutters he got from the Brookstone catalog that use the same principle as the LeafGuard® system. He had a steep roof on a two story house, so he had us install them. Within one year he called us back to hire us again to remove those gutter covers and install the hinged leaf screens that we recommend. He reported that with the other metal covers; pine needles would get stuck in the small opening, where the water is to seep in. This blockage would encourage the water to pour off the end and caused a water fall over places like his doorway (no joke). Debris will quickly get stuck in the crevice for the water to seep into the gutter. Well before it turns to mud as it decomposes, it will cause a waterfall over the edge of the gutter. As we said above, they may guaranty that the gutters will not clog, but that does not even suggest that the gutters to continue to accept the rain water. It also does not allow for inspection of the debris build-up in the gutter, let alone anyway for simple access to clean it out. We have since refused to install these sort of hoods at any price, since it clearly goes against our ethics. What about pine needles? We will not kid you about the issue of pine needles. These screens may do well to stop about 50% to 60% of small pine needles from going into the gutters. That is why it is so important to have the large industrial size outlet along with the Leaf-catcher strainer down near the ground in the downspouts. Between this 3 part protection system, we have had very little call-back issue after installing these No-clog options on thousands of houses since 1996. There is no better product out there for these issues we've found at any price, no matter what their claim (see our comparison web page for more details). You will still have the roof sand settle in your gutters and moss will grow inside, so it is good to be able to be able to see and get in there to clear it out from time to time, but that's not required with our No-clog installation warranty. We have put these itemized options on each bid, with no pressure to take all or nothing, but only around 20% of our clients in the last 15 years have us install gutters without these options, so we have had a pretty sizable number of installations to gather this research from. |
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How Well Your Gutters Are Installed |
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Problem: Believe it or not most gutter contractors do not bother to level the gutters, let alone install them to have a slight grade down towards the outlets, so you will most likely find standing water in your gutters even when they are clean, since there is no such thing as a perfectly level house. In many cases it only takes an inch of debris near the outlet to make the gutter over-flow at the other end. Those Gutter Contractors will not accept responsibility, claiming it is not their responsibility to keep your gutters perfectly clean. Although even if you do keep them as clean as possible that standing water and debris between cleanings will cause the cheap steel gutters they installed to begin to rust within a decade, so they will fail shortly after that. I have seen evidence of this from the 2,000+ gutter replacements I have preformed personally. Over 75% of the gutter replacements were primarily due to the old gutters having rusted through the bottom
What
is our difference? Wider bottom: These issues are why I cannot offer our no-clog warranty with just the addition of screens and larger outlets on existing gutter systems. It is very rare to find your gutters were installed with the proper grade needed for good functionality (but it could happen). |

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Our Larger No-clog Outlets |
The larger 3" X 4" DSP (shown right) were designed for industrial applications, where huge roof area surfaces are an issue. They will handle twice the volume as a standard 2" X 3" DSP, but the benefit for a house is being able to have a 2X larger outlet for the debris to be able to make the transition into the DSP better. A larger gutter with the same small outlet would not help at all. The size of the outlet makes a much greater difference by far. Making sure the gutters are sloped the right direction also helps more than a larger gutter would, but that part of a different topic. This 3X4 DSP feature is what LeafGuard® hinges there no-clog warranty on. Keep in mind how it only helps to use these 3X4 DSP for the sole reason of cutting a larger hole for the outlet in the gutter system. The local LeafGuard® franchise buy their downspouts from the same suppliers we do, so I decided to offer the same sort of No-clog Warranty with our gutters and leaf screens at a fraction of the cost. With these stronger leaf screens we install, they are easy to install, much less expensive, user friendly, and we can better afford to manage our warranty this way w/o having to charge you an arm-&-a-leg to defer the cost of that sort of replacement cost LeafGuard® would have to suffer when their gutter fills with moss! That alone is very telling of their product. It is not like their product is any more expensive to produce. Some of their outrageous cost is for the expensive advertising they push, but the other half demonstrates the cost of the failure rate of their product, even with all the clever loop holes they have written into their guarantee. I've written more about this issue at: http://dmr-gutters.com/lp.htm Here's what we discovered with LeafGuard® gutter work that we had replaced. Do you see a difference between them? They should not have even bothered with such sloppy workmanship when the actual opening is no bigger than a 2X3 DSP. It seems this is what you really get for the cost of what we charge for copper gutters: These larger commercial size downspout allows us to cut twice the size hole in the bottom of the gutter, making it much more likely that the debris will tip into the downspout and flush through. Instead of the debris covering the outlet and creating a natural strainer in the gutter, which will decompose and turn to mud, so as to not allow rain water pass, causing the gutters to over-flow. It only makes sense that you need the gutters to continue to drain, or there is little reason to have gutter to be on your house at all. Placing a strainer up inside the gutter may help to keep your underground sewer pipes clear of this sort of debris, but they are death to gutters. That is the exact opposite of installing the 3"x 4" downspouts. Using the leaf-catchers instead (shown below) is a lot smarter, so you do not need to go up on the roof to clear out that smelly debris. Right after we starting to offer this advantage, we would noticed our customers dissatisfaction of the look of those huge industrial size downspout coming down their siding. Even if they did not say anything about it, we could see the look on their face. LeafGuard® insists on using these double size downspouts all the way down the side of your house to the ground only so they can still charge 3X more for their over-kill DSP, like they do for the super high cost of their gutter system. They insist on those larger DSP because even though their gutter is design with only a 1/4" opening for the rain water to get in, a good amount of small debris will still wick in with the rain water, so when their gutters do get cloggedwith pine needles and moss they often have to replace the whole gutter, since there is no way to open them to clear out the blockage. That is unless it happens to be just a simple straight run, and they are able to remove the end-caps to blast out the gutter with a hose (see our comparison web page for more details). Since we are not as greedy as the LeafGuard® franchises and have a much lower overhead wecan charge less than half their price. I figured out how we could use the same reducer (that funnels the downspout to fit in the storm drainpipes) up higher on the wall. The large 3"x 4" downspout is not needed for the dead drop. It is only needed to make the larger drain hole in the bottom floor of the gutter. Our customers have clearly been more saticfied with our alternative, not to mention how it also reduces the cost dramatically. We also are able to use a smaller Leaf-catcher on each downspout as well because of this. In the last 15 years of doing most of our gutter jobs this way, we have had very little call back for clogged gutters. We have had no call back for a clogged downspout. The DMR Gutters system seems to be working quite well. You can contact us for contact info of our past clients. I post addresses on this web site, but I do not want to expose them to spammers with their personal contact info here on the web. This option adds only $50 per outlet to the cost of a new aluminum gutter installation. Or $75 to alter your existing gutters to these larger outlets. We are not able to offer the same sort of No-clog Warranty with alterations of your old gutters, mainly since your old gutters would most likely not have been installed properly with a grade towards the outlets. Proper installation is something we have rarely seen when removing old gutters. Believe it or not, most Gutter Contractors do not have their installers use a level to check their installation as they go. |
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Other Types of the Larger Outlet I Install |
Below is a copper downspout from a
side angle.
To the right is a custom reducer mounted under the gutter with no elbows, as the downspout
just runs down the wall. That application allows for an even larger outlet than the
elbow below does, but there are not many applications for this use.This option in copper adds only $50 per outlet to the cost of a new copper gutter installation. Or $75 to alter your existing copper gutters to these larger outlets, but as stated above, we are not able to offer the same sort of No-clog Warranty, since your old gutters would most likely not have been installed properly with a grade towards the outlets. |
| The Leaf-catchers we make, sell, and install if you are local |
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How do we trust they work as well as you say? That is a very good question. I feel
strongly that you will be quite happy with the results. Of course we would
say they are the greatest thing since sliced cheese. I do not think highly
of salesmen either. One thing that is different here is that I am not just a
salesman. I am still an active installer over the last 15+ years. I do not
have any employees to do the grunt work. I am out there in the field in one
of the worst areas in the country for lots of rain, which grows big healthy
trees for lots of natural fallout debris on roofs. Gutters are not just an
option here. They are required by building code. The only negative feedback I have gotten is how there may be a little splattering of rain water hitting the debris left on the screen, but I figure that when it is raining hard enough to cause this issue, the ground all around it already getting a lot wetter from direct falling rain than a little splattering. I have made numerous alterations over the years to refine the design to solve any feedback and issues I have noticed. A closed unit that has a pull out basket may look nice, but it causes more problems than it solves; out of sight, out of mind. Before it gets serviced the debris has become packed over a foot up into the upper DS pipe. It is certainly a challenge to design the perfect device that has the best possible balance between cost, function, looks, and longevity. Factors that would not naturally work in harmony with each other. I admit they will splatter a little outside the housing. If I were to make these catchers a lot wider and deeper they would work better and need less frequent servicing, but they would also look horrendous and cost a lot more as well. I recently switched to stronger stainless steel woven screen, from this copper expanded metal seen to the right I had used over the last decade. I have seen several other faulty catcher designs. The best device would be one that was closed unit and would activate an incinerator when the debris reached a certain volume using the DS pipe as the exhaust flue, but that would be expensive and complicated to install with all the wiring and natural gas piping needed. I was inspired to make these for our gutter clients. over the last decade and a half I have installed these on most of the gutter jobs I've done, as it is one of my most popular features I offer, and has more to do with the success of my gutter job sales than any other factor. It has been a process of trial and error to refine it to this point over the last 15 years. I've found these Leaf-catchers that I make to be the best concept out there to date. How could I prove to you that I'm not simply biased towards our product? Well for starts: 1.
I do not have any custom machinery that I had tooled
to mass produce these to make me stuck with this one design, like other
companies. Why did you design these: We have a lot of pine trees with small needles in the Northwest here that will for the most part get through the screens that we install over the gutters. We would estimate a good 60 to 70% of the smaller debris still get trapped in the Leaf-catcher unit's screened basket. We do not see how we could design one with a higher percentage without causing more problems than it helps. It is angled to allow for the debris to fall out if it is neglected for too long.
How do we operate them? With these downspout strainers we make, there is no hinge or removable screen to lift up and dump out the debris. There is no moving parts. We could make the screen basket removable with this current design, but we go to an extra effort to crimp the baskets into the housing, making them not removable on purpose. If they were removable, the basket would inevitably get damaged and it would also scratch up the inside of the housing putting them back in place. It has
proven to be a simple task to reach in there with your fingers and extract
the debris and simply toss it on the ground and wash your hands off just a
few times a year. Or if you want to make this more sanitary you can
carry a small bucket and use rubber gloves. That debris does not seem
to get too nasty with smelly bacteria, as it often does when sitting for
many months up in the gutter, since the moisture is not trapped under the
debris. It dries out and has not been nearly as unpleasant as removing
decomposed debris out of the gutters. That is a good question we hear often enough. Here is our understanding: (a)
As listed above how
the gutters were installed will make a large difference as to how well this
system will function. From our experience most installers do not bother to
use level while installing new gutters, let alone angle them to have a
slight grade towards the outlets, as we do on each job. We have not seen a better device to handle this issue in an efficient manner at any price, let alone a reasonable price. We install them about hip height, so you do not have to bend over to clean it out. These Leaf-catchers cost $50 each to be installed with your new aluminum downspouts, or $75 to be installed in your existing downspouts. A little more for copper of course. If you are not local to us, you can still order these through this web site from our Shipping web page. You will also find detailed instructions how best to install these Leaf-catchers on your place, or have a local contractor do it for you. |
A little history of these Leaf-catcher units: They were originally designed by a gent here in Portland Oregon several decades ago. He was a gutter contractor, and later retired. Then Gutterman's Supply copied his design. I was ordering 50 units at a time from them paying $3 extra per unit to have them use copper screens instead. They do not run a very professional operation there and I was having to wait over 3 month for them to get around to filling my order. I could not wait that long, so through my frustration I finally made up my own patterns and made some other improvements that I felt were needed. The few installers who buy the LCs made by Gutterman's Supply will install them close to the ground, right in the underground drainage pipe for simplicity. They also will not have a copper screen. From what we have seen those screens are broken through within the first year or two. The pounding of the water and debris is too much for those fragile screens. We have seen some with steel screens, but they will begin to rust within a few years. We noticed this problem before we began to install them, so I made sure Gutterman's Supply did not use the aluminum screens for the LC's I ordered. We feel we have the best design out there for this purpose. Stay away from the plastic strainers, because the sun will ruin them in short order. We also attach them to the wall with the better pipe cleats and stainless steel Philips screws, instead of the straps and nail like you most likely have on your house now. This makes it easily removable and reposition for cleaning or painting behind the downspouts. |
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What to avoid: There are not a lot of similar options out there, but above is one solution made by the makers of plastic gutter parts. It was a good attempt, but as you see it still clogged and when it does work, it dumps gutter water and gunk on the head of people using the walk way under this contraption, and it's mounted too high up to reach in order to clear out the blockage. Not user-friendly. I just stopped in (7-19-04) to ask this little old lady if I could take these photos. She reports how she hates them and knows she needs new gutters. Sadly, we were booked too far out and she went with another contractor that was ready to do the replacement the very next day, but all she got was lousy steel gutters she's now stuck with. |
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| Our Custom Downspout Work |
Here is another example of the over-sized outlet option. The above picture is an example of what is called an 'B' elbow. This is also a 'B' elbow. The double 'A' offset elbows shown here are used to go around that steel pipe vent going up the wall. We decided to take the water from the main gutter section, instead of punching a hole in the gutter near the end cap, so that the water and debris did not have to go around these two corners. It would have made the downspout a lot shorter, but the drainage would be much less effective. We stock 5 times as many elbow configurations than most of the other Contractors for a better fit to your house. |
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| More of Our Extraordinary Custom Work |
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Here are photos of the 3.5" x 10" wide custom
Super Outlets
with the larger 3" x 4" industrial size elbows mounted underneath and sealed
to it.
I make these for some jobs to help avoid gutters from clogging that much more or to catch the run-off from 2 separate gutters for the advantage of having an expansion joint to relieve the tension off the sealed corner connections. This adds another $50 to the cost in aluminum or $65 in copper.
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Special
Rain-cups Outlet:Rain-cups are used in leu of a regular downspout in an area where a straight gravity fall is possible. This outlet piece under the gutter helps to effectively funnel the rain water into the cups allowing for a larger outlet opening without restricting debris. Go here for more detailed installation instructions and photos: http://dmr-gutters.com/rco.htm |
It then goes into a 3"x 4" downspout pipe, which is twice the size of a
normal downspout. It cost this clients in West Linn an extra
$450
over 10 years ago,
instead of only
$50 |
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This is a custom aluminum catcher basin to catch the rain water from a different kind of narrow valley. It was made from a straight 3' gutter. Again, with each end mitered, instead of just slapping on a pair of end-caps. It has a 3.5" x 4.5" funnel mounted in the bottom as the outlet, reducing into a standard size downspout going straight down the corner of the house. The cost for this was calculated from the basic cost of the gutter needed to make this: $17.50 + the cost of mitering 3 corners: $120, + installing this funnel in the bottom: $50 = $187.50 total. |
![]() This was the finished custom product for the downspout feature for a gutter over the back deck on a house in South West Portland Oregon. As you can see from the glass sliding doorways how the gutter on the back deck was so low, it was just higher than a tall persons head. We came up with this one piece unit to keep the down spout up as high as possible, since the headroom clearance was at a minimum. We had to design it open at the top, since there is so little slope to it. It then goes into a custom 3.5"x 4.5" downspout reducer that funnels into a standard 2" x 3" downspout. the picture below shows just one side of the gutter over lapping into the custom tray. We charged about $150 extra for this custom scupper tray or $200 in copper, depending on the length of the eaves, instead of normal downspout cost. ![]() |
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We didn't need to go to this trouble to miter the ends, but it just makes it look a little nicer, without going to too much trouble like the scuppers we custom make.
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Other
Helpful Roofing Information For some valuable advice with regards to roofing and rain management issues check out our:
(a)
Gutter Installation web pages for answers and solutions that could save you thousands of $ and a great deal of anguish. If you do find this information very helpful, feel free to send us a $ tip for the assistance we so freely have published on the web here for your benefit, like you might tip a waitress. Heck, send us a gift certificate for a candle lit dinner for two. <LOL> |
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Business Equipment |
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Below is a
photo of our |
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We were also a 1997 finalist for this same award. See our referral web page to see how we managed to be honored with this special award |
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